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Grade the suspension: Tom Kostopoulos

Montreal Canadiens forward Tom Kostopoulos has been suspended for three games, without pay, as a result of being assessed a game misconduct during NHL game #197 against the Toronto Maple Leafs on Nov. 8, the National Hockey League announced today.

“While it is my determination that Kostopoulos did not deliver a check to an unsuspecting opponent, his actions caused injuries,” said NHL Senior Executive Vice President of Hockey Operations Colin Campbell.

>> league release

Okay, what do we think (in case you missed the incident, it's here):

 

Poll
Grade the suspension:
Too much
60 votes
Too little
160 votes
Just right
158 votes

378 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 20 comments  |  Add comment |

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Just a heads up

The video link is broken.

Fear The Fin: Where the second round is overrated.

by Mr. Plank on Nov 10, 2008 5:29 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

It’s working on my end. Anyone else?

by James Mirtle on Nov 10, 2008 5:31 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Just right. I don’t think there was any ill-intent beyond the role that Kostopolous is asked to play. As a checking line player, it is his duty to finish his checks and play on that edge. It was extremely unfortunate that Van Ryn checked up the way that he did. That being said, Kostopolous should have recognized Van Ryn’s vulnerable position. Van Ryn should never have put himself in such a precarious position.

if Kostopolous checks up and does a fly by behind the net, and Van Ryn skates into his corner and up the ice with the puck, do you think Kostopolous is congratulated for his sportsmanship on the ice, or given hell for giving up an odd-man rush?

by trbr86 on Nov 10, 2008 5:39 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

That’s a false choice. It is possible to tie up van Ryn without plowing him into the boards.

by J. Michael Neal on Nov 10, 2008 10:24 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

Do you remember when a player was prepared to get hit into the boards? The players now always turn their back to avoid getting hit by the opponent and they gain an advantage.

I don’t want to see players get hurt but I am tired of guys turning their back to gain advantage on their opponent and than complaining when they get hit. Go back and watch the classic games on the NHL Network and watch how players would brace themselves for the hit instead of turning their back.

D.O.
www.diebytheblade.com - An SB nation destination for Sabres fans everywhere

by David Oleksy on Nov 11, 2008 11:14 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Heck, watch a junior game.

You’d think with the more stringent calling, they’d do even more of that nonsense to try to draw, but instead, they almost always brace against the boards. The puck-protection argument is a red herring: you can tuck it against the boards, or if you’re really clever, you might be able to hide it in your skates to reduce the chance it pops loose.

by Doogie2K on Nov 11, 2008 11:27 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Except

Van Ryn never turned his back to Kostopolous, for a full 3 seconds Van Ryn was skating to the boards with his back to Kostopolous the entire time. Van Ryn did turn his head slightly to look back, he knew Kostopolous was coming and would check in him into the boards, but I highly doubt he was expecting Kostopolous to drill his head into them.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Nov 11, 2008 12:13 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Far too harsh

The position of the league to penalize based on injury rather than intent is very misguided. We’ve seen this on the other end as well where vicious hit are unpenalized because nobody missed a shift.

The above clip inidactes no intent to injue and shouldn’t earn anything more than a two minute boarding penalty.

by Ebscer on Nov 10, 2008 6:18 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

I agree that punishment based on injury is a poor choice

But judging intent is impossible. They need to punish the action itself. This was a dirty and dangerous hit, and whether or not Kotsopoulos intended to injure Van Ryn, he has to be responsible for his action.

Three games is a minimum to send a message that this cannot be tolerated.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Nov 10, 2008 9:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

This shows why Colin Campbell and the NHL Front Office Aren't Valid Anymore

Look, I’m willing to give Kostopolous the benefit of the doubt that he had no intent to injure, that’s a grievous and serious charge and there isn’t sufficient evidence to point that to.

With that aside though, Kostopolous demonstrated that he had full and clear intentions to hit Van Ryn into the boards from behind, my belief is that he underestimated his speed and the impact of his hit.

Having watched the replays a gazillion times, several facts are quite evident.

1) Kostopolous had Van Ryn lined up for a full 3 seconds going into the boards, 3 bloody seconds is ample time to react. Did Van Ryn turn into the hit last minute? He shifted ever so slightly, not significant enough that he would have avoided the hit had he not make that slight turn.

2) Kostopolous went straight into Van Ryn body-first, no player will skate full speed and go barreling into the boards, they’ll always at least try to turn or go into the boards with their shoulder, this wasn’t the case which means Kostopolous clearly intended Van Ryn to be between him and the boards when they made contact.

3) Kostopolous had his arms and elbow up.

4) Kostopolous leaned into the hit, meaning he put his weight into it. If he had simply ran into Van Ryn, he would’ve gone into the hit straight.

Therefore, intention to hit from behind into the boards, clear and obvious. 3 games is a hand-slap, and obviously Kostopolous doesn’t think it’s his fault, he’s sticking to his blatant lie that Van Ryn turned into him, so it’s not his fault, it’s Van Ryn’s and the sentence justifies his thinking. No lesson has been learned and the only message being sent by Campbell and the front office is that they’re not interested in eliminating hits from behind.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Nov 10, 2008 9:46 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Making an example

A guy without any history of dirty hits makes one with all the media in Canada in the house, on HNIC. The fact that he got more than Randy Jones last year for nearly ending Patrice Bergeron’s career is pretty funny.

Kostopolous is completely at fault for this, but the random wheel of justice is definitely in place. There’s no rhyme or reason to it. To be honest, I don’t know if 3 games is too much or too little or what have you. Campbell and Co. have no logic, no method, just madness.

Dear God, Winkle. You want him hung, don’t you?

People are forgetting that this is essentially a 4 game suspension… he got a game misconduct in the first period of that game. And it’s really a suspension without precedent. If you think this one is too little, than every other hit from behind in NHL history has been punished too little, so it’s a moot point on this particular instance.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on Nov 10, 2008 11:21 PM CST reply actions   0 recs

Hung?

No, but Campbell and the NHL needs to start addressing this. You’re right, there’s absolutely no consistency in the way they determine and hand out punishment, and it looks to me that they and everyone else is using that as an excuse to hand out such light and insignificant suspensions.

Well it’s gotta start some time, they have to bring the hammer down because this is the equivalent of doing nothing, 2 games for the hit on Bergeron is criminal as well. I don’t get it, when is the NHL going to crack down on this? Is it going to take someone being killed on the ice before they take this seriously? Are we, as humans, completely incapable of learning until we have experienced the full severity of our mistakes and errors?

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Nov 11, 2008 7:05 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Flabbergasted

The only thing that 3 games for Kostopop and 2 games for Randy Jones proves is that the NHL and NHLPA don’t care about player safety.
Van Ryn has genuine talent. Kostopop has virtually none. Much like all 4th line plugs.
Is this what fans wantn to see? Talented players on IR while plugs have free roam over the ice? That’s a curious preference.

by Dr Van Nostrum on Nov 11, 2008 1:43 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

1) There has to be a way to make suspensions non-arbitrary. By that we mean the punishments through the years have NEVER been consistent. Now suddenly the NHL policy is that a suspension will be given if injury results? What is VanRyn got up from that hit and started throwing his fists, no suspension for Kostopolous?
2) If this is the policy, then so be it, but lets show some consistency then. Will the degree of injury also play a role in suspension length? Again, fine if that’s the policy, but lets know it in advance and then lets see it enforced evenly throughout the season AND playoffs!

by Fauxrumors on Nov 11, 2008 7:11 AM CST reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely

The inconsistency is a huge problem, it’s almost like gambling on the player’s part, they can go in and make a dirty hit and play the odds on whether they get a 2 game suspension or a 20 game suspension, there seems to be no real policy on how the length is determined unless your name is Chris Simmons.

"God's in His heaven. All's right with the world." - Robert Browning (1812-1889)

by Winkle on Nov 11, 2008 7:48 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

“Will the degree of injury also play a role in suspension length?”

As long as Colin Campbell’s wheel of discipline spins, we’ll never have an answer…

by Afino on Nov 11, 2008 8:06 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Word

See Darcy Tucker getting nothing for intentionally attacking a guy’s knee.

Honk if you love Justice!
"I'm betting that I'm just abnormal enough to survive. "

by TheTick on Nov 11, 2008 11:25 AM CST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

The sad thing is that the league hands out suspensions based on outcome rather than on the act. The result is that the outcome of the hit is never known right away. If the league knew that Bergeron would be out until this year I bet they would have given more than a laughable 2 games. Now Kostopoulos misses 3 games while Van Ryn is out for 4-6 weeks on the short side and depending on his concussion he could be out for much much longer.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Nov 11, 2008 12:26 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

You know what would help? An actual policy

It’s amazing. The league has a CBA with umpteen thousand clauses and sub-clauses. A constantly adjusted rulebook with all its rule 1(b)(iv)C) sub-clauses. The have a rules committee debating the measurement of goalie pads. Yet with suspensions/discipline, there’s no clear-cut policy, no clear indication of what proportion of suspension decision shall be assigned to: intent, severity of injury, degree of victim foolishness, victim star-quality, and perpetrator’s rep and history — yet we know ALL of these have played a role in various suspensions.

The league should:
1) Decide on which of the above factors matter, and how much. Then communicate that clearly to players, officials and fans.
2) Educate players (and fans, and irate GMs) — hell, run pre-season sessions if you have to — on what it means to play NHL hockey today, and what is expected of both puck holder and checker. For example:

  • Is it acceptable to have the puck on the boards and then turn your back to the checker at the last moment? If so, how much time does the checker need before he can’t avoid hitting that guy anyway?
  • If you’re that checker, is it acceptable to follow through on your check even though the guy just turned his back to you? Or do you have to skate with hesitation, knowing he might turn at the last second and implicate you in a penalty?
  • If you’re Mike Van Ryn, skating to the boards to retrieve the puck (so NOT turning his back at the last second) in a near-icing-like situation, should you expect not to be nailed because you’re vulnerable — and thus you can slow down a few feet before the boards as you get to the puck — or should you expect to get creamed, so you have to try something like glance by the puck or take an outside angle because the guy behind you is looking bury you?
  • If you’re Brandon Sutter touching the puck with a checker approaching you, should you expect the checker (Doug Weight) to pull up at the last second when you suddenly lean forward, head-first? Should that checker have to pull up — and therefore should the checker expect a player can do this so as to nullify the legality (and thus deter the likelihood) of a full-on check?

I know there are differing views on these and other in-game situations. But at least if the league and players sat down to establish a policy befitting the ever-larger, ever-faster nature of today’s players, then we wouldn’t be using a Ouija Board to guess at and interpret the length of each (non)suspension that comes along. And then players would have a better idea of what they’re dealing with before they make split-second decisions.

SBN now has a NY Islanders blog at LighthouseHockey.com.

by Dominik on Nov 11, 2008 1:18 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs

I know it's been brought up before

And is a token response whenever incidents like this are brought up, but it’s going to take someone dying for changes to be made.

You think anything changed after the Steve Moore incident? That was a perfect chance, years ago, to change the system after the publicity the incident got. But the NHL refused to do something about it.

by Afino on Nov 11, 2008 1:47 PM CST reply actions   0 recs


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