Attendance watch starts in Phoenix

Brutal.

There’s no way to spin it positively. The attendance last night was brutal. You should have seen it before the latecomers filed in at the first play stoppage – it looked worse than a preseason game.

Getting shut out in the opener didn’t help, but I think that the damage done to this team by Moyes, Balsillie and the NHL over the summer is going to be very tough to fix. I talked to a few of the fans who showed up to the White Out (there was a significant number of “glory days” fans in the crowd, the equivalent of Red Wings fans with Steve Yzerman sweaters who pronounce his name “Ee-zerman”) and they said they were there mostly for the event. They went on to say that as soon as the Coyotes could prove that they weren’t a fluke or a flash in the pan that they would be back, a position that frustrated the hell out of me… but considering the history of the team I couldn’t begrudge them the sentiment.

I’m very interested to see what the Boston game’s attendance is like, though. Weeknight games are Phoenix’s Achilles heel, particularly against teams like St. Louis which don’t have a national fame cachet and who aren’t divisional rivals (which leads me to ask why the franchise doesn’t do the “bargain ticket” promotions for those days just to get asses in the seats). The Bruins in theory should be a great draw because a) it’s their only visit of the season, b) there are a bunch of East Coast transplants around here, and c) there are a bunch of Canadian transplants who HATE the Bruins and would love nothing more than to see them lose.

Oh, and in re: Reinsdorf, I don’t expect him to show back up at all. I think he was only involved in the first place because he was doing it as a favor to someone. At this point it’s Ice Edge or nothing.

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by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 11:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

This whole thing is like shooting a cancer patient in the face and then saying, “See, he died, that proves chemotherapy doesn’t work.”

OK, that doesn’t really make any sense, but I think you get the gist.

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by RudyKelly on Oct 16, 2009 1:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, that makes perfect sense. In fact, I think that’s exactly what Balsillie tried to do in Nashville, as well.

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by Doogie2K on Oct 16, 2009 3:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But he’s such a patriot?!?!? Make It Seven, FTW!!!!!!!

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by Mike @ MHH on Oct 16, 2009 4:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boston game.

Better attendance, but still brutally low. About 9-10,000 once everyone filed in (it was another early game and I think some folks forgot it was at 6pm local instead of 7pm).

The Red Wings are coming to town on Thursday so we’re pretty much guaranteed to have a nearly full barn – problem is, it’ll be full of idiot poseur Red Wings fans (EE-ZERMAN! EE-ZERMAN!). Sigh.

The only bright side is that if the Coyotes keep playing the way they are then the attendance is going to start going up. Tippett and King are making Gretzky look really, really bad right now.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 17, 2009 11:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I traded for Bryzgalov at the start of the year in my keeper pool. It’s early yet, but he’s been an absolute godsend.

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by Doogie2K on Oct 18, 2009 10:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

He’s been playing well but to be honest he hasn’t really been challenged all that much – Tippett’s defense has absolutely stifled every team they’ve played so far.

I have him in my pool too but I haven’t played him yet for fear I’ll jinx him. :P

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by zyllyx on Oct 18, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

9,162 was the announced crowd.

Bringing in Tippett and King was a great move. Lang will help, too.

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by James Mirtle on Oct 18, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Move them to Quebec City right away! I watched part of the game on TV and the arena was mostly empty and silent…

by Fred Poulin on Oct 16, 2009 11:48 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Empty, maybe. Silent? No.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 12:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

try the "volume" button

it helps a lot.

by yrmom on Oct 16, 2009 1:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I watched the game on TV too, it was sort of interesting. The noise from the crowd was so low that you could hear a lot of what the players were saying on the ice. Interesting, but not the sort of interesting you want if you’re the Phoenix Coyotes organization.

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by jakeshapiro on Oct 16, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I felt like I was watching an IHL game.

by hallock on Oct 16, 2009 11:50 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

5000?

My god. Pathetic.

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by Rob Luker on Oct 16, 2009 12:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

People have estimated that few in the seats for other teams in the recent (Atlanta) and distant (Detroit) past as well.

by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 2:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In zyllyx defence...

…there are many other NHL franchises that if you haven’t won anything the fans will not show up, case in point, Chicago a few years back. The Coyotes need to show their fans that this start (4-2-0) is not just another flash in the pan and that they are truly “for real”. Pierre McGuire (can’t believe I’m saying this but it’s true) said it best during the Florida-Chicago game in Finland that if you take any market (even Toronto) and have that team NOT make the playoffs for a certain amount of years (in Florida’s case 8) the fan base will dwindle to the point of obscurity. Make no mistake winning brings more fans and only by winning will the fans in Glendale start to fill the Jobing.com Arena.
Don’t think it could work in Glendale? Just look at Raleigh and how bad the attendance was there a few short years ago and look at it now they almost sell-out every night so things can change in a hurry it just takes time and, most importantly, winning. Winning takes care of everything.
Original 6 teams sell well in any arena due to it’s large fanbase so Boston should be a great sell in Glendale.

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Oct 16, 2009 12:44 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

i agree

For better or worse, this is true of nearly every team. I moved to Boston just before the Bruins’ playoff series against Montreal two seasons ago (the one when the B’s were the 8 seed), and was stunned when the Habs fans shouted the Bruins fans down in the Garden in games 3 and 4. You know your team hasn’t been good in a while when the fans of your biggest rival drown you out in your own building in a playoff series.

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by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 1:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We get that at every Red Wings game. I think there are people who show up to those games in Red Wings gear that don’t even know who’s playing for the Wings.

“EE-ZER-MAN! EE-ZER-MAN!”

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Coyotes should just sign Yzerman. Problem solved.

by yrmom on Oct 16, 2009 1:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey, when the lacrosse team made the final, that house was packed. It was great to see. Just proves that people will watch a team that isn’t complete garbage.

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by Doogie2K on Oct 16, 2009 3:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anytime a Leafs (or anyone else) fan “wishes fans would just vote with their wallets” so that MLSE would take their concerns seriously they should look at this Phoenix situation. Be thankful when your team has fan support!

To zyllyx: I remember when the Oilers were all but gone to Houston and the team had fewer than 13,000 fans per game. Now they sell out every night. Enjoy your team this year (I know you’re already doing this) and remember that even when things look bleak there’s always still a chance that you can come out of it.

by Scott Reynolds on Oct 16, 2009 12:55 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for the kind words. I’m desperately hoping Ice Edge isn’t the second coming of the Bolts’ ownership group. I’d gladly let Saskatoon have five of our home games if it meant an ownership group interested in not only keeping the franchise here, but running it as a HOCKEY TEAM and not a goddamned real estate scam.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally

It wasn’t that long ago that the Pens were horrible and I was convinced they would be moved. Clearly, things turned around in a favorable way after that. :) I sympathize with the hockey fans down in AZ and still hope this can work out for you.

P is for Latrobe.

by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 1:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Coyotes just need the league to rig a draft lottery in their favour when a generational talent is up for the top pick. ;o)

by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 2:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I echo those sentiments

There were many years in which I had hoped that somebody like Balsille would buy the Hawks just to get rid of $$$Bill Wirtz.

It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!

by hawks61 on Oct 16, 2009 2:58 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Attendance was truly atrocious last night. My wife and I kept moving up a row each period just so we didn’t have to disturb folks already sitting in our row…it’s not like there were folks in front of us using the seats, unfortunately.

I think there are a few things that would help a lot (in no particular order):

(1) Advertise: The white-out got a lot of media attention; by contrast, last night’s game got nary a mention anywhere that I saw/heard. This is most likely a product of the fact that the ownership situation hasn’t been worked out, so I’m not sure that they have it all figured out yet how much they can spend.

(2) Keep Winning: This is (obviously) the most important thing. If this team goes to the playoffs this year, that building will be sold out for every game (without a doubt, low pricing or not)…

(3) Change the Start Time to 7:30: I think this would make a HUGE difference. It’s annoying to get to the arena through rush hour traffic for a 7 PM start. By moving it to 7:30, anyone can get home first (to anywhere in the valley), hop on the nearest highway and get to the game in time for the first puck drop. With the way the NHL has sped up games so that they are pretty much uniformly 2.5 hours, getting done at 10 isn’t too bad for families. Also, because AZ doesn’t do daylight savings time, the east coast teams that visit would have 9:30 starts for most games (which beats the 10:30 start times in LA and SJ).

(4) Bargain Tickets: I agree with zyllyx that it makes no sense not to offer really cheap tickets to these games (I know, I know…they’re already pretty darn cheap)…but there’s no reason not to make them as cheap as possible to lure extra fans out.

I’m sure there are other things they can do, but I probably should get back to my job. In unrelated news I ran into the Coyotes VP, General Counsel at the game last night who I am friendly with and he was really upbeat about everything, which I thought was a great sign considering how crazy things must be for the organization. Hopefully everything gets straightened out before too long and there are 15,000+ people there next time Scottie Upshall makes a sick toe-drag to score a sweet game-tying goal…

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by Moridin417 on Oct 16, 2009 1:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

(4) Bargain Tickets: I agree with zyllyx that it makes no sense not to offer really cheap tickets to these games (I know, I know…they’re already pretty darn cheap)…but there’s no reason not to make them as cheap as possible to lure extra fans out.

I sent James and email last year that made its way onto here about the Pens student ticket promo and why other teams aren’t doing it. I’m not going to pretend to know all the logistics or say that would make everything better, but at what point does a team say 10-20 bucks a head is better than no one in the seats. Even if it wasn’t just for students or only for a limited number of seats, it has to be better than nothing. After all, you’re already paying all the electric bills, gate personnel, etc

by Hansmoleman on Oct 16, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I went to college just up the hill from Mellon. We took full advantage of the Student Rush program; it was fantastic.

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by holiday park on Oct 16, 2009 1:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My best hockey pal is a die-hard Oilers fan from Canada who relocated here to start a business. He and I discussed this at length last night. He is actually far more optimistic about the team staying here than I am, maybe due to his familiarity with the Oilers’ struggles.

Anyway, he and I agreed that whatever financial gain the team makes from charging regular prices is offset by the empty seats. The long and short of it is that with professional sports gouging the hell out of the fans, it’s tough for blue-collar fans to come to games. We both theorized (based on having both been at the White Out) that there are plenty of people who would gladly go to a Coyotes game if the team stuck with the “loss-leader” prices. Think of how much a simple movie costs these days (easily $50 or more if you don’t get a matinee ticket and you buy food). You don’t even have to go down to the White Out level prices – but a lower bowl cap of $40 or so and $15 upper bowl would sell the arena out consistently.

Yes, it would probably add to the financial losses, but at this point isn’t the preferred option to lose money with the arena packed full of people instead of empty like an airplane hangar?

Oh, and another thing – If I had been running the arena, I’d have let the upper bowl folks come down to the lower bowl after the first intermission. It’s ridiculous for me to see big swaths of the lower bowl empty while the upper bowl has fully sold-out sections. If there’s room, let them come down. Period.

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by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 1:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good point

I never understood why ushers etc would get all annoyed with people for moving down to empty seats later in the game. We used to try that all the time at Expos games and would get the bum’s rush. What difference does it make by the third period or the seventh inning. The folks that had the seats aren’t likely going to show up/

by Exit716 on Oct 17, 2009 3:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Stars have been doing a student ticket promotion for years, just for the record. I’m sure a decent number of teams do this.

by VA Libertarian on Oct 16, 2009 2:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Sabres for years have put Friday home games at 8pm, and then now 7:30.

Why? So people don’t have to rush or get out early from work just to beat/sit in traffic to get to the game. I’ve always thought that was one of their smarter moves.

by Afino on Oct 16, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the white-out got a lot of attention because it was sort of a one-off event. Every night can’t be opening night, right? Trying to turn every event into opening night diminishes the value of the one good thing you have going already, which is opening night.

Not to say that the club shouldn’t advertise, but in terms of getting actual media attention (not paid advertisements), I’m not sure there’s much they can do. Why is it in the media’s interest to be covering the team? That’s got to be the angle they approach it from.

by dzuunmod on Oct 16, 2009 4:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What did people expect? The season ticket holders from last year got a letter from Moyes, the owner, basically telling them not to renew because the team was moving and they wouldn’t get their money back. Who the hell is going to buy tickets after that? No season ticket base plus an early season game against a meh opponent is going to equal that.

Moyes and Balsillie basically burned the franchise down to the ground in their efforts to force the move. Rebuilding is only going to begin after the team is completely out of bankruptcy and in the hands of a new owner (and the NHL doesn’t count).

I’m not saying that Phoenix will be a good market, just considering what has just happened that this year can’t used to pass judgment on the market.

by jkrdevil on Oct 16, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

That's really the thing...

All summer long, Coyotes fans have been subjected to the circus in the courts, and the only thing that everybody seems to agree on is that the team is financially screwed along with Glendale. There’s a very large feeling that the team isn’t long for Phoenix, no matter how much effort they put into keeping them around. Why should fans commit to the Coyotes when there’s so much uncertainty and so little hope surrounding the franchise, especially in a recession? No team in the NHL has ever been subjected to the kind of PR war that the Coyotes have, and now, we’re seeing the after effects of that attrition in the attendence numbers. Phoenix was struggling before as a long-term losing team in a non-traditional market; it’s going to take more than a season to recover from the additional damage done during the summer.

If attendence rebounds at all, the Coyotes should never, ever move, because those would be the most dedicated fans in hockey.

by Forsch31 on Oct 20, 2009 9:02 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Worst attendance in decades?

Do we have any good lists of attendance going back very far? I know it was awful back when Mike Ilitch first bought the Red Wings and resorted to giving away cars at every home game, but I wonder just how that compares to what we’re going to see this year.

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by Dirk Hoag on Oct 16, 2009 1:36 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

There used to be a guy who tracked the attendance on hockeyresearch.com. The page has long since gone offline, but I saved it as a word doc back in the day.

The Red Wings worst listed years (nothing available from the 70s) was 12,496 in 81-82 and 12,994 in 82-83.

More recently, the Islanders bottomed out at 9,798 per game in 99-00. Hartford routinely averaged barely 10,000 per game before relocating. Tampa fell to 11,511 in 98-99. Edmonton barely over 12,000 in 95-96.

In the 2000s, the worst teams were the Islanders (11,332 in 2000-01, 12,609 in 05-06), Anaheim (11,646 in 01-02) Carolina (12,171 in 2003-04) and Chicago (12,727 in 2006-07)

by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 2:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the North Stars had some years lower than the ones you mention before they moved.

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by James Mirtle on Oct 17, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup. Minnesota did have some awful figures

9655 in 75-76
9083 in 76-77
8666 in 77-78
9795 in 88-89
7838 in 90-91

by Resolute on Oct 17, 2009 6:06 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Those Hartford numbers are incorrect, if they were the average in the years before they moved. The last three seasons, average attendence rose. The last season, attendence was almost 14,000. The average attendence was slightly above 10,000 for three seasons: 1991-1992 through 1993-1994.

by Forsch31 on Oct 20, 2009 9:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and totally off-topic...

…my new hockey buddy gifted me a couple of boxes of Smarties. How excellent are those, eh?

Next up: Coffee Crisp and Ketchup Chips!

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Oct 16, 2009 2:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I feel bad for you poor Americans. Ketchup chips and Coffee Crisps are the words greatest snack foods.

by Resolute on Oct 16, 2009 2:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m still baffled that American Smarties are actually Rockets. WTF.

Ketchup chips are overrated, but Coffee Crisp is good stuff.

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by Doogie2K on Oct 16, 2009 3:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ketchup chips are overrated

burn the witch!

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by PPP on Oct 16, 2009 4:52 PM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

Ketchup chips sound disgusting.

But I don’t like brats, either, so to each his own. :)

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by Baroque on Oct 16, 2009 6:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like brats, either. Unfortunately, my sisters both have a bunch, so I have to learn to live wi—

Oh, wait, you don’t mean children. Alright, I’ll bite: what’s a brat?

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by Doogie2K on Oct 17, 2009 6:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bratwurst. The most overrated piece of sausage-like material in existence, IMO.

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by zyllyx on Oct 17, 2009 11:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, I thought it was in reference to some kind of candy, like Nerds or something.

I’ve never had bratwurst, but I know it’s sausage, and I’m generally in favour of sausage, so until proven otherwise, I’ll assume it’s awesome. ;)

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by Doogie2K on Oct 18, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Knockwurst kicks its links three different ways to Sunday.

by Forsch31 on Oct 20, 2009 9:04 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hey

they are both 7 kinds of awesome. Especially with Sauerkraut

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by Jibblescribbits on Oct 20, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

kovbasa FTW.

by Resolute on Oct 18, 2009 11:11 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There’s a fantastic Ukrainian deli about a mile from my house. The best sausage they make? The andouille. Go figure.

by J. Michael Neal on Oct 18, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why do Americans say this? Americans happily gobble barbeque chips and the main ingredient in bbq sauce (at least on chips) is ketchup.

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by Chemmy on Oct 19, 2009 10:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t like potato chips flavored like anything other than salty potatoes.

If I want barbeque taste, I’ll eat barbeque. If I want cheese taste, I’ll eat cheese. If I want mesquite taste, I’ll eat mosquitoes.

"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero

by Baroque on Oct 19, 2009 6:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s nice. Plenty of people eat BBQ chips in the US and act like ketchup chips are some abomination.

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by Chemmy on Oct 20, 2009 10:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a cultural thing. Plenty of people watch the NFL in the US and act like the CFL is some abomination too.

"I know everyone has their own opinion, but your opinion is wrong. "

by Mike @ MHH on Oct 20, 2009 2:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Were you replying to me? Because I’m no American, sir. My avatar is a WHL team logo, for crying out loud.

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by Doogie2K on Oct 21, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought Coffee Crisp was tried in the US for a bit and Nestle lost interest.

As for Ketchup chips, Herr’s makes them in the Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. Now, All-Dressed chips, OTOH…

by Scrabbleship on Oct 16, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There are a ton of people here in PHX that assume their moving is still a foregone conclusion. Heck there are people who think they moved already (don’t ask). Moyes/Balsille and the court mess made an already bad situation worse.

No one is going to invest their money/emotional energy into a club that they see as a loser on several fronts except for die hard puckheads. Yotes need the following things to all happen before you can realistically expect serious attendance rise.

1. Consistent play combined with wins. So far so good. Coaches and players are doing everything they can on the ice. This is an easy team to pull for once you see them play.

2. Ownership and lease situation get resolved. Can’t stress the importance of this enough.

I suspect that if they keep winning the numbers will slowly increase.

The other things that would help would be for the Suns to be mediocre, which I fully expect to be the case, and for the Cards to not make the playoffs. This would make them the number one sports story in town by mid January.

by CP2Devil on Oct 23, 2009 1:58 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs