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Some Facts on Arena Readiness and New Markets

There's been a lot of discussion here at From The Rink lately concerning expansion/relocation and possible arenas for NHL use. However, few arenas/locations that have been tossed around are checked against the following criteria:

1.) Is there a current arena ready for use?
-This is important to note. No matter the passion or fanbase in a given area, there must be up-to-date facilities for any NHL-caliber club to use should an owner expect a market to be viable and profitable. Given the trickiness of public funding for sports facilities, nothing is guaranteed (if you think otherwise, I'd suggest a case study of the 1976 Winter Olympics that were supposed to be held in Denver).

2.) Does the arena in this location have a suitable capacity *for hockey*?
-As some of you have noted, many people seem to be looking at a map of current/past NBA locations and throwing darts. What people forget (and Phoenix is a good example of this, given their original arena) is that not all arenas that have a high capacity for basketball can be configured in a manner that produces a high enough capacity for hockey to meet NHL standards. Conseco Fieldhouse (in Indianapolis), for example, loses nearly 4,000 seats in its configuration for hockey, which is about 2,000-2,500 more than most arenas lose between set-ups (in Toronto, the Air Canada Centre only loses 1,000 seats when crossing from basketball to hockey).

3.) Was the arena constructed or significantly renovated in the past 20 years?
-An arena should have been constructed or renovated in the past 10-15 at the latest, given the many changes that have been applied to arena architecture in the most recent building boom. Ideally, the arena will have been built in the past 10 years (or under construction now) to ensure it doesn't become outdated quickly.

Now, after using just those 3 criteria, I was able to run through the 29 largest U.S and 3 largest Canadian markets without NHL clubs, and narrow the list of NHL-ready arenas down to the following:

Houston
Portland
Cleveland
Orlando (arena under construction)
Kansas City
Oklahoma City

Now, James and many others have suggested that non-hockey-crazed American markets should ideally have a metropolitan area of at least 2 million to support a hockey club. Myself and a few others have argued that market saturation is also a critical element, as there are only so many entertainment dollars to go around. As such, sometimes smaller markets can support a team if it's not trying to support many (or any) others, and larger markets sometimes can support many, many teams (such as New York or Los Angeles) due to their massive size. To put this argument in terms of the '2 million' figure, Cleveland, for example, has over 2 million people, but is still about 450,000 people smaller than Denver, which is the smallest metropolitan area to have a team in all 4 'major' North American sports leagues. Notably, Denver also has an MLS team and numerous outdoor opportunities to distract, so it's probably safe to say that any area smaller than Denver shouldn't have a team in each major sport. As such, I'd subtract Cleveland from that discussion. Comparatively, Portland has about 150,000 people more than Cleveland (and is still roughly 300,000 people smaller than Denver), but only has 1 'major' sports team - the Trail Blazers - with an MLS team on the way. Without a team in the NFL or MLB, Portland is a much more viable market than Cleveland, despite similarly-sized metropolitan areas. It's also worth noticing that Portland is growing at a decent clip, with 14.5% growth between 2000 and 2008, which is above average.

Obviously, these factors aren't limited to their ability to host teams in the 'major' (NHL, NBA, MLB, NFL) sports - Miami is the 7th largest metropolitan area in the U.S./Canada, but has trouble drawing fans in anything that's not the Dolphins, a fact perhaps attributed to the South Beach lifestyle. Las Vegas is under the heralded '2 million' mark, but just barely. In fact, it is the first metropolitan area under this mark, and will likely surpass the 2 million mark in the next 5 years or so, growing at a 35.6% clip in 2008 before the economic turndown. It also doesn't have a major professional sports franchise, but it does have about a million other options for consumers to spend their disposable income on, not to mention it lacks an NHL-ready arena. This whole issue is an imperfect science, but the point is that many things aren't always immediately evident in looking at just arenas and population size. Some areas are major college football crazy (Austin), some places have major NASCAR events all over the calendar (Charlotte), and some places are just too dreamy (Miami, San Diego). Not that anyone's suggesting such places (and Miami, for example, already has the Panthers), but it's worth noting nevertheless.

As such, let's re-visit the markets that passed the first 3 criteria:

Houston: the 6th-largest metropolitan area in the U.S. and Canada combined, Houston has a metro population of 5.728 million and an arena (the Toyota Center) built in 2003 with a hockey capacity of 17,800. There aren't a terrible number of non-sports distractions in this area, and only Texas A&M (which is a healthy drive away) has major college football nearby. The area is also incredibly wealthy and continues to grow. Sunbelt-haters will rip on me for it, but this is a solid, solid market if done right (worth saying given the Phoenix clusterf*ck).

Portland: Portland is the 7th-largest U.S./Canadian metropolitan area without an NHL team, and the 25th largest metropolitan area on the continent north of Mexico. It only has 1 'major' sports competitor for sporting dollars, but it's arena is already 14 years old. The Rose Garden was notably renovated in 2007, however, and it has a hockey capacity of 18,280. Yes, it doesn't have a deep hockey history, but it's still much larger than many markets where NHL hockey currently resides, and it doesn't have near as much competition as many of those markets. It's also a relatively wealthy area with crazy population growth. Portland would definitely be a wise place to look.

Cleveland: Cleveland fits the '2 million' mark, but just barely. It's also shrinking and has teams (unsuccessful ones, at that) in all 3 other 'major' sports. Sadly, Cleveland has also taken an economic beating in recent years, with the current recession falling particularly hard on the area. On a positive note, Quicken Loans Arena is one of the U.S.'s nicer arenas despite being built in 1994, and it had recent renovations in 2007. It's hockey capacity is 19,941, which is amazing, but unfortunately not enough to overcome Cleveland's shortfalls. As mentioned above, the area is smaller than Denver, which is currently the bar for 4-sport markets - a bar Cleveland, most likely, won't surpass.

Orlando: Orlando is a tricky market. It's getting ready to have a beautiful new arena, but it has entertainment options galore (admittedly, however, mostly for tourists). It's also very near the Tampa market, despite being a separate metropolitan area. Notably, Orlando only has 1 'major' sports franchise, but enthusiasm for even this team (the Magic) is tepid at times it isn't experiencing great success. Orlando is likely a great fall-back option for a re-location of the Lightning or Panthers, should that ever happen.

Kansas City: With all the press this market receives, it probably surprises some to learn the facts on KC. This area has just the 13th-largest metropolitan population without an NHL team, and is the last market to be over the '2 million' figure. It does have a beautiful arena (the Sprint Center), which holds 17,752 for hockey, but the pre-season draw was mild at best. I'm not terribly sure this market can handle 3 franchises, as it would be the smallest market attempting to do so (if you don't count Milwaukee and Green Bay as the same area, which the census bureau doesn't), but the area seems Hellbent on filling their white elephant of an arena somehow. Basketball seems like a much better fit for this area given the deep basketball tradition in the area (rock, chalk, Jayhawk), and maybe they can even have their Kings back (?). Currently, Cleveland is the smallest area to host 3 'major' sports teams, with Pittsburgh running second (again, without counting Milwaukee and Green Bay as one), and both of those areas are larger than KC.

Oklahoma City: No. No, no.... no. I don't even think Oklahoma City is kidding itself on this one. Despite steady population growth and a nice arena (that can hold 18,036 for hockey), OKC is still a green market for the 1 'major' team it does have. Nor does it have much of a hockey tradition. And, it would easily be the smallest market not hit by Hurricane Katrina to attempt to have 2 'major' teams. If you subtract New Orleans (and, I do), Milwaukee is the smallest metropolitan area with 2 'major' teams, and it has about 350,00 more people than OKC. As such, 1.5 million appears to be the threshold for 2 teams.

Notable things I found while researching this:
Denver is the smallest area with 4 'major' teams and has a metro pop. of 2.506 million.
Cleveland is the smallest area with 3 'major' teams and has a metro pop. of 2.088 million.
Milwaukee is the smallest area with 2 'major' teams and has a metro pop. of 1.549 million.
Perhaps a basic formula for team support in an area (other factors aside) is 500,000 + (500,000  x  # of teams)?

Now, what does all this seem to prove? Basically, what James has been saying (in a roundabout way). Houston is currently the best market for an NHL team that doesn't already have one. As always, these things can't be decided by pure numbers. I certainly think a team in Southern Ontario would be a force to be reckoned with, but without an NHL-ready arena, this area can't honestly claim to be the best prepared (for now). Portland is also an important market to monitor, as it has incredible potential and continues to grow. Cleveland's at it's limit, and Orlando has a lot working against it due to extraneous factors (proximity to Tampa, entertainment options, being in Florida) despite a beautiful new arena on the way. Kansas City has a white elephant in its hands and egg on its face. I can only hope for its sake that it gets a basketball team. It can probably host a 3rd team (it's only marginally smaller than Cleveland, and KC's still growing), but I doubt a hockey team is more ideal than a basketball team. Oklahoma City? No.

But what about everywhere else? As you may recall, I said at the beginning that I looked at 29 U.S. markets and 3 Canadian markets at the start of my research. Well, I'd say they're all non-factors without an arena or a guarantee to build one. A lot of the places at the '2 million' mark don't have the plans or the desire to build a new arena, especially not for a hockey team. In my best estimation, I'd say Houston and Portland have the best shots inside the United States, with situations in Southern Ontario and possibly Quebec City worth monitoring in Canada. It's worth noting, however, that no matter how hockey-mad Quebec City is, it's still ultimately the 77th-largest metropolitan area in the United States and Canada combined. And no, I don't care to hear, "but... but... if you include X, X, and X nearby...." because you could do that with just about any metropolitan area. At the end of the day, Quebec City is slightly smaller than the McAllen-Edinburg-Mission (TX) metropolitan area, and slightly larger than the Greensboro, NC area. Haven't heard of those areas? That may be your sign.

This isn't to damn Quebec City. Nor is it to defend the Sunbelt (Houston) or the emerging (Portland) over the proven. Nor is it to damn or support Southern Ontario. Honestly, I think Southern Ontario's a non-issue without an arena and some sort of word on the resistance Toronto and Buffalo might be able to provide.

So, then what's the point? Basically, to give you something to think about. We can argue 'til the cows come home about the most viable markets for NHL teams, but having an actual NHL-ready arena and a sizeable population will always be important contributions to the discussion, as well other market factors (wealth, enthusiasm, saturation, etc.).

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I think you are overestimating the necessity of a city having an existing NHL-calibre rink. I wrote a fan post about this a month or so back. If a team is on the move, and the owner is willing to take a short term loss while a new facility is built, then there are plenty of new markets which can open up for a potential relocation. A 15,000 seat arena as a 2-3 year temporary home should be plenty workable.

by Arenacale on Oct 19, 2009 6:33 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

and...

I think you are overestimating the ease with which a new arena can be constructed, particularly in this economic climate. Again, I’d refer anyone who thinks such a thing is a gimme to the 1976 Winter Olympics.

At the end of the day, there’s no talk of expansion or relocation worth having if there won’t be a viable arena to use.

by VA Libertarian on Oct 19, 2009 12:53 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not easy, to be sure...

But politicians can be stupid, and easily distracted by shiny objects. There are cities and states (and provinces) out there that would bend-over backwards to get an arena built if a team promised relocation. And if a team had the option to fill 10-15,000 seat rink temporarily while the new place is built over getting 5-9,000 a night as a lame duck where they are, which do you think they’ll choose?

As an aside, I also see private funding as a real estate investment as helping arenas along at this point in time. Both the Lighthouse and Atlantic Yards are as much about apartments and retail as they are arenas. Bob Kraft’s done a hell of a job with the Patriot Place outdoor mall attached to Gillette Stadium, although to be fair it’s roughly 40% vacant at the moment.

by Arenacale on Oct 19, 2009 5:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The article clearly states the 3 major criteria I used in narrowing down sites. If an arena’s not ready-to-go (or on the way), I don’t consider the site currently viable. When an arena is in the works, a market would be taken into consideration.

by VA Libertarian on Oct 19, 2009 7:49 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok, I’ve been a bit wrong. I agree, if there’s no chance in hell that an arena will ever get built, then obviously any sub-NHL standard arena existing is a moot point. Seattle is a good example since they’ve gotten burned before and will likely not be building a new facility any time soon. But there are cities without adequate long-term facilities that have plans in the works (or on the backburner until a concrete promise of relocation), and they should not be overlooked as viable sites. Quebec is now one of these, Hartford has had preliminary plans for years (and these would probably accelerate if a team looked likely to come), Baltimore has plans to get a new arena, I’m sure it’s on Cinncinnati’s docket, etc. etc.

by Arenacale on Oct 20, 2009 10:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously, these factors aren’t limited to their ability to host teams in the ‘major’ (NHL, NBA, MLS, NFL) sports…

Not to nitpick, but since when is Major League Soccer one of the big 4 sports in the US?

I think the presence of the University of Miami, Florida State University, and the University of Florida have a bigger effect on entertainment dollars spent than “the South Beach Lifestyle.” People who don’t live in the South for an appreciable amount of time generally don’t have a grasp on just how big a deal college sports are, especially college football. In the Bible Belt, college football comes somewhere between the Son and the Holy Spirit on the importance scale.

"I know everyone has their own opinion, but your opinion is wrong. "

by Mike @ MHH on Oct 19, 2009 2:06 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

misprint

I meant to say MLB. The other remarks confirm this. :/

And as someone who’s lived in the South my entire life (including, at various points, in Florida), I can assure you Florida and FSU don’t have that big of an impact in Miami. Also, the U struggles to sell out sometimes, so they’re suspect as well. Miami is far too large an area to have excuses for their struggle to support sports teams.

Also, I’d hardly call Miami the Bible Belt – it’s mainly northerners and retirees. Hell, I barely consider most of Florida to be the South (culturally).

by VA Libertarian on Oct 19, 2009 7:41 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My only beef

Is you forgot to include Seattle in the analysis. I’m not sure if Key Arena would work for NHL ready though.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 19, 2009 3:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s a little over 15,000 seats for hockey, which fits into my category of good temporary homes.

by Arenacale on Oct 19, 2009 5:08 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to be missing the point

Again, this isn’t about ‘temporary’ homes. This is about ready-to-go sites.

I don’t know how or why you seem to think getting an arena built is an easy thing politically, especially in Seattle. Do you not realize the taxpayers of Seattle just shelled out hundreds of millions for new homes for the Mariners and Seahawks… particularly to the degree that they were willing to call the Sonics’ bluff?

by VA Libertarian on Oct 19, 2009 7:47 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I didn't

I did use Seattle, but it didn’t make the first cut since it doesn’t have an NHL-ready arena.

I even gave Key Arena props for being renovated in 1994, despite it being a shitty arena that was originally built in 1962. The bigger problem is that when configured for hockey, Key Arena only seats 15,177.

Here’s some of the data (though it won’t post cleanly from a Word table):

City Metro. Pop. Arena (Ren.) Capacity
Houston 5.728 mil 2003 17,800
San Francisco – Oakland 4.274 1966 (1997) 17,000
Riverside 4.115 2008 09,736
Seattle 3.344 1962 (1994) 15,177
San Diego 3.001 1966 12,920
Baltimore 2.667 1962 (1986) 11,286
Portland 2.207 1995 (2007) 18,280
Cincinnati 2.155 1975 (1997) 12,823
Sacramento 2.109 1988 17,317 (BB)
Cleveland 2.088 1994 (2005) 19,941
Orlando 2.054 2010 17,200
San Antonio 2.031 2002 13,400
Kansas City 2.002 2007 17,752
Las Vegas 1.865 2003 07,773
Indianapolis 1.715 1999 14,400
Charlotte 1.701 2005 14,100
Norfolk 1.658 1971 08,784
Austin 1.652 1977 (2003) 16,755 (BB)
Providence 1.596 1972 (2005) 11,000
Milwaukee 1.549 1988 17,800
Jacksonville 1.313 2003 13,141
Memphis 1.285 2004 11,411
Louisville 1.244 1956 17,062
Richmond 1.225 1971 11,088
Oklahoma City 1.206 2002 18,036
Hartford 1.190 1975 (1980) 15,635
New Orleans 1.134 1999 16,500
Birmingham 1.117 ———— ————
Salt Lake City 1.115 1991 14,000

Quebec City 0.715 1949 (1980) 15,127
Winnipeg 0.694 2004 15,015
Hamilton 0.692 1985 17,383

by VA Libertarian on Oct 19, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

SF-Oakland has a team in the Sharks. Sure they are San Jose, but it’s 45 minutes by car and there’s a rail from SF to SJ (and a stop at the shark tank) that runs relatively inexpensively and frequently.

But that’s a minor technicality.

And thanks on the Seattle issue. I wasn’t sure how many Key held for hockey.

Part of the reason Seattle held out though was because they had renovated key for Basketball (and the owner wanted a $½B arena) A more reasonable cost arena might have a better chance of being built.

But I see your point that arenas, especially in this economic climate, are tough to build.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 20, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not likely in Seattle

When they built SafeCo, the rest of the state of Washington was made to chip in for it, and that did not go over well with the second largest city, Spokane, which is about a 6 hour drive away. They’d have to find more local funding because I doubt the rest of the state would stand for having to pay for something they don’t get to use again.

Also, of consideration in Portland is the demographics. It might be a “chicken or the egg” thing, but it’s not a big sports market. Whether that is because there aren’t many viable options, or there aren’t any viable options because they won’t find enough support remains to be seen, but my experiences there would lead me to believe it’s the latter. The population is young and hip. It’s a very “green” city and its inhabitants appear largely content with outdoor activities and art museums and outdoor music festivals over sporting events.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2009 11:17 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Portland’s attitude is not much different than Denver’s, and Denver’s a great sports city.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 20, 2009 11:39 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You may be right

I, admittedly, only have brief experience with Portland itself, but based on personal observations of the city and the fact that they only have one major sports team (and only four in the entire Pacific Northwest), I think a good argument could be made against it being a top choice for a hockey team to relocate to.

That being said, I’d love to see another team up in that region.

by elesias on Oct 20, 2009 1:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Portlands a bad choice because the Blazers are #1 and they share a season with the NHL. I think a baseball team would do well in Portland (especially since summer nights in Portland are very pleasant.)

As far as population enthusiasm goes, winters there aren’t the greatest (rainy season) so the outdoors stuff isn’t nearly what it would be in the summer. I just think a hockey team may not be able to compete with the Blazers.

That said I think it’s an ok market and definitely worth a more detailed look.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 20, 2009 2:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve wondered the same things about most of the cities pointed out. If there is a basketball team as the only other sport, I think it’s a bad idea to install a hockey team, regardless of arena readiness. Too much competition for the same dollars.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Oct 20, 2009 11:02 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Portland sounds like what Vancouver city council wishes Vancouver was like. I sometimes get the impression they love the Canucks, but don’t give a fig about any other team. We’ve lost the NBA, Indycar and the PGA, and council is taking forever to allow the new Whitecaps stadium.

I've seen enough to know that I've seen too much.

by Smoboy41 on Oct 20, 2009 9:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Molson Indy Vancouver!

This is going way OT, but it still confuses me a little that IndyCar doesn’t go for the Canadian markets more aggressively. The glory days of the early-mid 90’s were highlighted by the Vancouver and Toronto races. They have the Toronto and Edmonton races now, but they could probably get big crowds in Vancouver and Montreal as well. Of course, all this after they give us back our New Hampshire race.

by Arenacale on Oct 21, 2009 6:43 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I lived in Seattle when they renovated Key Arena

Us rare hockey fans in the area were pissed that the Sonic owner at the time, Ackerly, intentionally chose a renovation that did not satisfy NHL criteria for a new NHL ready arena. Basically, he had his little empire and didn’t want to add NHL hockey to it.

Having lived in Seattle for 12 years, even with their proximity to Vancouver, it just never struck me as a hockey town. I always wondered if Portland could give it a go, however.

Hey Peter McNab, I'm starting to see sunshine and rainbows here.

by Bob in Boulder on Oct 26, 2009 7:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seattle’s never been without a team, as far as I can remember. The Totems, Breakers, T-Birds, even the Sabrecats and Rockets in Tacoma. I wonder how much of an impact they’ve had on Seattle’s sporting landscape?

I've seen enough to know that I've seen too much.

by Smoboy41 on Oct 26, 2009 7:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have qualified it

NHL hockey town. At one time I had Vancouver’s CBC affiliate as part of my cable, but the ##$$! cable company dumped it for Northwest Cable News. It was amazing how uninterested the town as a whole seemed to be in the NHL.

Hey Peter McNab, I'm starting to see sunshine and rainbows here.

by Bob in Boulder on Oct 26, 2009 10:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No worries, Bob, I figured that’s what you meant. I agree with you that one doesn’t get the feeling that Seattle is much of a hockey town. An NHL team would probably have to fall in line behind the Seahawks, Mariners, Sounders and Huskies.

I've seen enough to know that I've seen too much.

by Smoboy41 on Oct 27, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting read

I was hoping KC would get one because it’s only a four hour drive.

Curious to ask you guys what teams could you see relocating? Are Phoenix and the Islanders (if the Lighthouse Project doesn’t pass) the only ones? Is there one that could surprise? Tampa maybe? Thanks.

Draft guru in training.

by tj.hendricks on Oct 20, 2009 2:13 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

San Antonio please :)

AKA: Linix129

by sw12 on Oct 20, 2009 7:56 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

So I’m pretty new to hockey, so please no one jump down my throat if I say something that ends up being completely stupid. But this kind of marketing and business decision type stuff really interests me. Okay, so here are some thoughts that I had, they mostly have to do with the area around Kentucky because that’s where I’m originally from. Cincinnati I think would be a very interesting choice for a hockey team, not that I’m saying it would work, but some of the variables are there. Is the arena in Cincy that you’re referring to where the BearCats play? Or is it the one on the river down by All American and Paul Brown? Louisville is a city that I think ends up being ignored quite a bit. They are getting a new arena (next year I’m pretty sure) that must be able to hold more than the 17k that are listed above. The new arena will hold 22,000 for bball, more than Freedom Hall (which is what I’m assuming was used for the data). The only problem, and it’s potentially a big one, is that both UofL bball teams will play their home games there and the NCAA tourney in March will most likely visit somewhat often. That could cause major scheduling conflicts, not to mention that Louisville, along with the entire Commonwealth of Kentucky, is college basketball mad. Kentucky is professional sports starved, and a lot of that has to do with the small population and the fact that college basketball is king. I would love to see some sort of professional sports team to come to Ky or close (Cincy) is basically Northern Ky.

Enough about my old Kentucky home. Houston. This place bewilders me. It’s the fourth largest city in the U.S. and somehow it doesn’t have an amusement park. Now I understand this is a sports blog- but I think this pertains to this discussion. The Six Flags that was in the city was closed down during the downsizing of the terribly run company. But how does a city SO huge and south enough to have the potential to have a longer season than most parks NOT have an amusement park? Same thing with a hockey team. Why don’t they have a hockey team? Seems like a pretty safe bet to me.

According to the data listed above San Antonio’s arena where the Spurs play only holds 13,400? Something’s wrong there. Alamodome is huge! This city is pretty damn big and could pull from Austin as well which is only about an hour away. They are pretty sports starved with only the Spurs, and they’re certainly not wanting for fans, though they’ve been dominant. Also, as hockey season only slightly shares the college football season, the fact that Texans are nuts for college football would affect an NHL team less then I think most may think.

And lastly- sorry this is so long. I currently reside in Miami and am a student at the U. Miami is not a professional sports town, it’s not a college sports town, it’s an event town. The only time you’ll be able to sell out a game for any of the sports is to either be winning ridiculously, or have it be a huge game. I’m in my senior year at Miami, and we’ve never come close to selling out a football game. Granted we haven’t been good, until this year, but we didn’t even sell out the Oklahoma game earlier this month. We came pretty close, but that was only because it was such an event. We were taking on a ranked team and it was the biggest game the program’s seen in years. And, as previously mentioned, we already have the Panthers.

Okay, so those are my two cents. Sorry it’s so long again.

Go Cats and Go Canes!

by KentuckyCane on Oct 21, 2009 2:58 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The only problem, and it’s potentially a big one, is that both UofL bball teams will play their home games there and the NCAA tourney in March will most likely visit somewhat often.

The Capitals share their arena with the Georgetown men’s basketball team. Days basketball+night hockey=awful ice conditions. The arena also hosts the tourney every few years, and its bit of a pain simply because it means no home hockey for a week or two.

by RedBirdie on Oct 21, 2009 10:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

We deal with that in San Jose every year, too. I think it’s in February, the SAP open (tennis) is in town. If you check out the Sharks schedule, you’ll see that the SAP open and Olympics make for a barren schedule. It’s a good thing it’s a short month.

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Oct 21, 2009 3:12 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

we’re stuck with the annual Washington International Horse Show right now. Mid-October always mean a long road trip. (and downtown streets blocked off so they can set up temporary stables!)

by RedBirdie on Oct 21, 2009 7:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

At least they don’t block the streets in San Jose. Sorry to hear about a bunch of horse shit happening in DC!

Jon Casey fan since '84

by stufflife on Oct 22, 2009 12:14 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think i’d take the road apples over what’s going to happen here in Vancouver during the Olympics. The downtown core is pretty much going to be on lockdown, not to mention the ridiculous string of road games for the Canucks, both before and after the Games.

I've seen enough to know that I've seen too much.

by Smoboy41 on Oct 22, 2009 6:18 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I never thought about Cincy… but that’s not a bad market. It could work there, but I think it would take a really good owner. Something the NHL is lacking these days.

The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time

by Jibblescribbits on Oct 22, 2009 10:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

But how much are people going to be following the Canucks when the Canadian National Team is going for gold? I feel so sorry for whatever team ends up playing Canada if they make it to the gold medal game.

Go Cats and Go Canes!

by KentuckyCane on Oct 22, 2009 1:13 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

The NHL is on break during the winter Olympics. No one will be following the NHL anywhere, then, because there will be no games.

by dzuunmod on Nov 15, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions   0 recs


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Dave Tippett for the Jack Adams award!
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Raffle
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Collective Intelligence or Popular Delusions:Visualizing NHL Trade, Award Rumors
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Phoenix sale?
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Developing Player Value: Defensive Value per 20 Minutes (DV/20)
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Kings GM & Johnson at odds over University of Michigan
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Penguins scouting heavily Maple Leafs’ Alexei Ponikarovsky
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Georges Laraque’s demise as an NHL enforcer

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Bloggers-in-chief

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Editors

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