Trouble brewing in Columbus
The Columbus Blue Jackets could leave central Ohio if the team can't fix an economic model that is causing losses of $12 million a year, according to a report issued today by the Columbus Chamber. But a deal to keep the hockey team here and the Arena District alive -- the team and the district generated $30 million in taxes last year -- probably will include asking for public dollars, and soon.
"We believe there is a sense of urgency here," said Ty D. Marsh, chamber president and CEO. "We're looking for a solution or progress by the end of the year."
This is a situation that's been building for a while. I'd actually be shocked if the Blue Jackets have made much of a profit in any year since the prelockout days, when the payroll was very low and interest was at its peak.
Historically, their attendance has been decent, too, at least prior to the lockout, but because a private company built the building, Columbus pays significant rent (about $3.5-million annually), receives no arena perks and ticket prices remain fairly low. The one game I've seen there, I sat right behind the bench for $80, tickets that were widely available.
Even with the league's new revenue sharing system, the Jackets just aren't all that close to turning a profit:
If the Blue Jackets had free rent and arena-naming rights, the hockey operations would basically be breaking even, but the other business of booking concerts and events would still lose about $4 million a year.
The biggest part of the problem?

And contrary to what's been written elsewhere, these are financial issues that are not merely solved by winning hockey games. The gap is just too large and the markets involved too small. Even if the Blue Jackets sold another 2,500 tickets a game and went on a run to the second round of the playoffs, they would still be in the red.
Teams like Columbus and Nashville are in tough to compete in a league with a payroll of more than $35- or $40-million and probably always will be.
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It amazes me the type of leases hockey teams sign with arena’s. Of course they probably didn’t see the economic meldown coming…………..
"It ain't over till it's over." - Yogi Berra
by 49er16 on Nov 5, 2009 12:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
The problem with the concert/event booking business at Nationwide is that Ohio State built another modern arena at almost the exact same time, plus left its prior basketball arena up as well. That’s two indoor concert venues that seat more than 19K and a third of over 13K, all within a three-and-a-half mile drive. Tough to keep event rents up with that much competition in that small a market.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 5, 2009 1:15 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Wow
I was about to comment on how Ohio State can only be a hindrance to the Jackets’ long term success, but I didn’t know the damage was that excessive. Tough to compete with the juggernaut universities in traditional college towns.
by Arenacale on Nov 5, 2009 1:55 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
in addition, by sister-in-law who lives in Columbus says the area has been hit very hard by the economy. A little better than most other Ohio cities because of OSU, but still hard. There’s simply not the disposable income anymore.
by RedBirdie on Nov 5, 2009 2:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Doug MacLean was on the radio here saying that, when a major act like the Rolling Stones comes to Columbus, they just play the two arenas against each other trying to get the most they can out of them.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 2:00 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Salary Minimum?
I’ve always thought the salary minimum that was instituted after the lockout was a bad idea for the small market teams that found a way to win on a budget. Is this part of the prob with Columbus?
And where did it come from? Was it a concession by the owners as part of getting the cap?
by From the Point on Nov 5, 2009 1:17 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, the union had concerns that some teams wouldn’t spend anything, so the salary floor was a concession to help get the cap. That said, I don’t think the salary floor is at issue here. Not when the Jackets are about $10 million over it. This is a case where Bettman actually predicted the future accurately. The cap acts as a magnet, and since the Jackets are now able to believe they can compete with the other teams in their division on the payroll scale, they have ramped up spending to try and push for those playoff berths.
by Resolute on Nov 5, 2009 2:13 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is the optics of staying at the floor long term won’t sell any tickets. And the team is likely to be much worse as the young talent exits stage left.
What’s a team to do? Lose money while trying to win or lose money and lose on the ice?
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 2:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Part of the problem with Columbus is spending beyond their means; NHL revenue sharing is engineered to support a small-market team spending between 25-50% of the way between the salary floor and the cap, while the Blue Jackets have been above that mark the last few years. That wouldn’t solve 100% of their problem, but a good portion of it, to be sure.
Nashville, on the other hand, spends around that area, and that’s why they’re able to basically break even (+/- $1-2 million).
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by Dirk Hoag on Nov 5, 2009 3:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Nashville’s expenses are significantly lower, they have a better lease and they collect more in revenue sharing every year. Columbus is only spending, what, $5-million more than the Predators this season?
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 3:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Like I said, it’s not a total solution, but that $5 million difference is about half of it. My point is that revenue sharing is geared to support teams spending less than what Columbus is, so a portion of the blame goes on the spending side there. That part of the loss would have to be considered an investment in building a contender that will pay off if they make a playoff run and build a stronger revenue base.
Certainly the Ohio State arena issue makes it extra tough for them to make money from non-hockey events at Nationwide.
More fun than a stick to the face!
On the Forecheck is SB Nation's blog covering the Nashville Predators.
by Dirk Hoag on Nov 5, 2009 4:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This story and the Yotes story really makes me wonder about the long term effects of the lock out and the CBA then negotiated. I realize the Yotes ownership had a significant part to play in the meltdown but as was brought up in that case and here and elsewhere, the economics of hockey are not working. I think it was two years ago or so I heard mention that my own Sabres wouldn’t turn a profit on the season unless they had one playoff round. What type of sport is this if all you can really hope for is to break even?
The population of Pominville keeps rising!
by Blackcapricorn on Nov 5, 2009 1:36 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
You must be a happy guy, James. Do you write about anything besides small-market financial failures and one large-market failure on the ice? :)
P is for Latrobe.
by holiday park on Nov 5, 2009 2:08 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
How about this one?
This isn’t meant to look down on Columbus; I liked watching a game there. They’re in the same boat as so many other teams that it speaks to an issue with the league itself.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 2:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s kind of a big deal for the league
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by PPP on Nov 5, 2009 3:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Good report, James
One thing that should be noted about the Chamber report is the timing. It was released the day after the elections. Voters in Ohio rejected casino measures three times before Tuesday, but now with the state economy in the toilet, they voted them in. And the measure calls for a casino to be built within a few blocks of Nationwide Arena. So picture this: A casino is built in a thriving area (the Arena District) that will be vacated by the very item that made the area thriving, the Blue Jackets. Look for the Blue Jackets to ask for a cut of the casino revenues and watch Gary Bettman squirm.
by Truth Serum on Nov 5, 2009 4:20 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Makes you wonder doesn't it?
What is the NHL going to do when the CBA reaches it’s end in 2011? Does it go the MLB route and let the same 8-10 teams compete every year? Or does continue on it’s want to be like the NFL routine? I might be in the minority here but I don’t see how the NHLPA and the owner’s of the big ticket clubs will ever agree to a hard cap CBA once again. I just don’t see it happening.
It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!
by hawks61 on Nov 5, 2009 4:59 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Now that a hard-cap exists, you can bet the farm that it’s not going anywhere. The cost certainty provided by having a fixed amount of revenue for players was the entire point of the lockout….no one will ever be willing to let that go.
If anything, all they need is more revenue sharing. The NHL has the lowest percentage of shared revenue of any of the four major sports leagues. Small wonder it has the most teams struggling financially and the biggest gap between top earners and bottom feeders.
More revenue sharing is great for the league as a whole, for a majority of the teams, for the players….the only people is sucks for are the Toronto’s and New York’s of the world. And hopefully they’re just going to have to suck it up.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
But what if there isn’t enough revenue from the profitable teams to go around?
If this team is losing $12 million a year, that one is losing $15 million, and this other basket case is losing $24 million – just how much are the higher revenue teams supposed to give up of their revenues to support the smaller-revenue teams? They can’t support the lower-revenue teams indefinitely. Their fanbases aren’t immune to economic downturns, either.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
by Baroque on Nov 5, 2009 6:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If there wasn’t enough revenue, then yes, that would be a problem. However, less than 15% of what the NHL considers league-wide revenue is shared, compared with 25% in the NBA, 35% in MLB, and 85% in the NFL.
There’s more than enough revenue to go around, even now. And a new national TV deal once the Versus deal runs out after next season wouldn’t hurt, either.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 6:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Shareholders might disagree. And do you have any links to what is considered league wide revenue? I’d love to take a look.
by yrmom on Nov 5, 2009 7:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Every team in the NHL is privately owned, and the owners all participate in one overarching league-wide structure. One team is not a standalone entity….it can’t play against itself. Shareholders really, really aren’t at issue here.
As far as what is defined as total league revenue, it’s buried somewhere in the CBA. I have a copy on my other computer, let me see if I can find it for you.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Article 50.1 of the CBA
Defines what is considered Hockey Related Revenue, of which players get 56% when league revenue is in between $2.4B and $2.7B, and 57% when league revenue exceeds $2.7B.
It is broken down in detail on pages 160-180 of the CBA, which can be found here: http://www.nhl.com/cba/2005-CBA.pdf
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 9:16 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There’s only enough revenue to go around if you want every team to break even, something the big fish would never, ever go for. The other way to help out the teams on the low end would be to lower the cap considerably in the next negotiations.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 8:53 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is there not enough revenue to go around? Between general NHL revenues (from television, advertising, merch, etc), plus all the team-generated revenue, the league as a whole is obviously making more money than its worse teams are losing. And given the consistent rise in league-wide revenue and profits, the difference is substantial.
You can’t possibly convince me that moving from a structure where you share 13% of league-wide revenues to 20% could possibly affect the bottom line of the top share of teams, and it would help make the league more viable in the long-run. Which is the most important thing out there.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 9:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Most of the league’s revenues are team-generated, leaving little to split up. A huge portion of the “profits” you’re talking about are coming from the top three teams, who aren’t likely to cough up that to prop up the minnows.
The biggest issue in the NHL when it comes to the economics is the revenue disparity between teams, and while I agree there should be a bit more revenue sharing, they’ll never be able to make everyone happy.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 10:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Two responses: 1) Why can’t they split up the team-generated revenues? The NFL and MLB share gate revenues and MLB also shares a huge portion of their locally-generated TV revenue. The only reason they CAN’T split it up is because some of the teams won’t willing do it.
2) Toronto, NYR, and then who is the third? Montreal? Vancouver? Philadelphia? And perhaps those top teams should remember that in order to have an effective sports league, you need 30 competitive, well-financed teams. Unless our overlords from on high (read: the Ontario Teachers’ Pension Plan) want to have their prized asset compete against itself. I’m sure not even the corporate drones who pack the ACC every night would go for that one.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 10:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
There exists an ongoing fantasy that the NHL should retreat to somewhere between six and ten teams (perhaps allowing the US Original Six teams to continue to exist upon the sufferance of their Canadian masters) and all its problems would magically go away.
Let’s leave aside the PA issues with contraction for a second, and just note that people cried about it being boring when the first post-lockout schedule algorithm found teams facing divisional rivals eight games a year. A smaller league makes for more of that sort of thing, not less.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 5, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably 26 teams would be ideal, but I’m not naive enough to think that’ll ever happen. They’ll probably be up to 32 in the next six or seven years.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, the bigger problem with eight divisional games a year is that there were few natural rivalries. If we had an 80s-style divisional playoff format, where these guys could meet for two playoff series per year, we’d be singing a much different tune.
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by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 9:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The “natural rivalries” demand always breaks down about halfway through a league, whether that league has six teams, ten, 21 or 30.
I could buy divisional playoffs, especially if we shifted back to four and got our damn traditional names back.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 6, 2009 9:31 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see four divisions, too. I think they’ll go that way after they expand.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 6, 2009 11:24 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, eight teams, four divisions, two rounds in-division, conference final, Stanley Cup final. Maybe not quite as intense as when you had four divisions of fiveish, but then you also don’t wind up with bottom-feeders getting pummelled in the first round nearly every year. Plus, at least then you have a chance to build up a rivalry over a number of years. Oilers-Stars was a good one for a while, and it was all from playing something like six times in eight playoff years.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 6:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Though a division of eight and a division of seven per conference wouldn’t be that bad…
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep — even without expansion, 8/7 is still fine. If you’re worried about fairness of the imbalance, implement a crossover rule like the CFL where a 5 can take the opposite division’s 4-slot if they have more points.
It’s not even that hard to do. Put Washington and the FL clubs in the Patrick (aligning them with the NY clubs where half the locals come from anyway), Carolina and Atlanta in the Adams (two current SE teams will have to be misfits, these are the two with the least obvious alternative ties), the Canadian NW teams in the Smythe, Min/Col in the Norris, and slide Dallas from Smythe to Norris.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 6, 2009 7:07 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno, I’d put the three NY-ish teams in the Adams and the two PA teams in the SE, for ease of travel arrangements. Then, MIN-DAL to the Norris and everyone else into the Smythe. Easy peasy.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Montreal.
The only reason they CAN’T split it up is because some of the teams won’t willing do it.That’s a pretty big hurdle as I understand it.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
And, again, the most important thing is getting a better TV deal. Versus’ coverage has gotten a lot better, but the league needs a (much) bigger paycheck this time around.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 9:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah… We’ll just wish that audience into existence and play hard-ball for something that’s not there, namely the money.
Lest we forget that ESPN pretty much offered nothing for the NHL and Vs. overpaid. This is a two-tiered league at this point, revenue-wise. Contraction and possibly a smaller competitive league are the future, IMO.
Things are only going to get worse economically. We are going to live through the last death throes of keynesian counter-cyclical nonsense. The NHL and, most especially, its teams at the margin in terms of revenue will be squeezed to the breaking point. The only good news in the short term is that the Loonie is still rising vs. the USD, helping to prop up league revenues for this season.
Ta,
by Tom Luongo on Nov 5, 2009 10:52 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Come on, Tom. Keep your politics out of this. We know you’re a die-hard libertarian. There’s no need for this when talking puck.
First off, the ratings for NHL on VS have been consistently climbing since the lockout, and this season I don’t think the word “exploding” would really be out of place to describe the numbers.
Second, ESPN has clearly noticed. Not only are they giving a noticeably larger share of their coverage to the NHL than at any time since the lockout, they’ve also invested in their staffing (stealing Pierre Lebrun is a huge deal IMO), as well as their “Thursday Night Hockey” promos and Sportscenter features. ESPN clearly is in the market to get the NHL back, and even if that’s a pipe dream that can never happen, the (real or imagined) presence of competition will force Versus to up the ante on the next contract. It’s a win-win for the league.
Third, I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but the economy is on the upswing. Meaning that disposable income is going to be rising and franchises hard-hit by the downturn are going to be able to bring some fans back. You’ll always have the black sheep…..but in general, league revenues are going to start climbing again.
Fourth, the league would rather let small teams bleed out and then move them to new cities rather than contract. Contraction is a sign of death for any sports league. It will never happen.
Fifth, the CAD is at an unsustainably high point versus the USD already. It’s nearly 50% better than it was in the late 90’s-early 00’s, and it’s not moving any further. As fans, we can hope it holds for a while. Last thing the league needs is another Ottawa situation.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 11:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
First quarter escrow was set at 18 per cent, which is significantly higher than what it was for the duration of last season. The league and PA forecasts are not as rosy as yours, at least so far.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 11:35 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s attributable to lag factors, I think. There’s no doubt the US economy is on the upswing, but a ton of the primary HRR funding was shelled out over the summer, which things admittedly looked a lot less rosy than they do now.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 11:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
It won’t matter if the “US economy is on the upswing” if people continue to remain unemployed for long periods of time and continue to lose their houses. Even after they get a (seemingly) stable job back, they won’t want to spend money on luxuries because they just lost a year or two or more of earnings that they will never get back.
"While there's life, there's hope." --Cicero
by Baroque on Nov 6, 2009 11:50 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The NBA is on TNT and ESPN, right? Why can’t the NHL be on VS and ESPN? VS gets Mondays, ESPN gets…I dunno, Thursdays, and everyone’s happy.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 9:05 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
If COMCAST (which owns VS) is bought by NBC (as is being rumored) I’d live to see NBC use one of it’s networks to air hockey, along with VS.
It would sure be nice if USA ran a game once a week or so.
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Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 6, 2009 10:45 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Other way around. Comcast is looking to buy NBC from GE. As for getting the NHL on lots of screens, lets see what the Justice Department has to say about one of the largest programming deliverers owning one of the largest programming providers. Besides, we could just end up with another mess where Comcast can’t agree on a price to charge others for its channels.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 6, 2009 11:17 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
lets see what the Justice Department has to say about one of the largest programming deliverers owning one of the largest programming providers.
Boy, it sure would be nice if we had some kind of organization doing that kind of oversight in Canada.
by dzuunmod on Nov 6, 2009 1:23 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The comparable organization in Canada is too worried about eeeeeeeeeevil American influence to take note of much else.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 6, 2009 7:09 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
How is that any different than Disney owning ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, etc?
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 6, 2009 2:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
None of the above deliver content, they merely provide it. In fact, the three broadcast networks have been specifically banned from owning more than a small number of TV stations, which is why most of them are affiliates of a network instead.
Content deliverers are actual TV stations, cable companies, and satellite companies.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 6, 2009 4:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Ahhh
I understand what you’re saying now.
That said, Time-Warner provides cable and owns a slew of networks, including CNN, TBS, and TNT.
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 6, 2009 5:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Unless
You’re talking specifically about “The Big 3”
The New Improved Avalanche. Now with Real Coaches!
Jibblescribbits: C'mon over and waste some time
by Jibblescribbits on Nov 6, 2009 5:42 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Time Warner Cable was spun-off earlier this year to avoid the exact same issues Comcast is being grilled on right now, actually.
by Nael M. on Nov 6, 2009 5:58 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Except ESPN, who made it pretty clear that they don’t want to broadcast NHL hockey. It would cut into their All Dickie V, All the Time winter programming schedule.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 6, 2009 11:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Replace “Dickie V” with “East Coast baseball”, “NBA” “Brett Favre”, or “offseason fantasy football speculation” and you’ve covered most of ESPN’s yearly programming.
Speaking of which, the one road block to the NHL getting on ESPN again IMO would be the NBA. Both leagues are direct competitors in the same time frame, and when ESPN and ABC got rights for NBA games back in 2002 it became obvious that both networks were making basketball their golden boy and treating hockey like a red-headed stepchild.
by Nael M. on Nov 6, 2009 6:04 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Whoops, you said winter programming. Though NBA and fantasy football would still count.
by Nael M. on Nov 6, 2009 6:14 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally I see the NHL softening the cap considerably with the basement dropping from $36 million to say about $20 million, but the high end rising from $57 million to somewhere around $73 million which would put the NHL pretty near where they were in 2004 in terms of disparity within the league. Revenue sharing may increase only to keep the lower end teams happy, but you can mark my words that this cap system will be drastically different than the one we’ve seen since 2005-06.
It's never about the eventual destination, but rather the long journey and its challenging obstacles that are presented and what it takes to overcome them, that makes the taste of success all the more worthwhile!!!
by hawks61 on Nov 5, 2009 11:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The teams on the low end will just get creamed under that system. But the fight over where the cap moves, higher or lower, will be interesting.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 11:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That system is only effective if you DRAMATICALLY increase the amount of league-wide revenue shared.
But if they go that road, they might as well re-brand the league as “Major League Hockey” and get ready for 5 straight Rangers Stanley Cups. Granted, the Rags had like a $90M payroll in ’97, and look how that turned out ;)
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 11:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Leafs and Habs can keep pace with the Rangers on payroll. All three would be over $100-million without a cap these days.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 6, 2009 11:26 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
That would all but destroy all of the work done during the lockout to get player costs under control. The owners as a collective would never stand for it.
Personally, I think moving the cap back down to ~55% of HRR and keeping it there would be an effective number going forward. The Players Association would be up in arms, but given the absolute mess they’re in right now, I don’t think they’re going to be in the best or most consistent negotiating position when the next round of labor talks come up.
Frankly I think it’s heavily dependent on when they negotiate and what the economic landscape looks like at that time, primarily with regard to the boom-time value of the top 3 franchises relative to the blood-red balance sheets of the black sheep, and the median-area franchises in between.
by HarryNeale'sGarden on Nov 5, 2009 11:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The PA would never go for a lower cap. Maybe a lower floor, but not a lower cap.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 9:01 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think the PA’s able to decide much these days.
Besides, if they’re guaranteed a certain percentage of revenue, who cares what the cap is?
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 6, 2009 11:27 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough, though there’s only so much you can jiggle the cap around while trying to maintain a certain percentage of HRR before it gets ridiculous in one direction or the other, no?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 6:06 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I follow. Players are guaranteed that percentage of HRR regardless of what happens.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 6, 2009 6:28 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
What I mean is, there’s only so much you can lower the cap while still giving the players X% of HRR, no?
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there). Link now 100% less broken.
by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I think salaries would just scale up then.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Nov 7, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I feel bad for you
You paid $80 to watch the BJs.
by garth the hoser on Nov 5, 2009 7:43 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
I think it was a 1-0 loss, too. The most exciting thing was the Predators squirting a water bottle at some Blue Jackets fans toward the end of the game.
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by James Mirtle on Nov 5, 2009 8:51 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Buser focused on the economic benefit that the arena and team are now providing to the central Ohio economy. Using conservative figures — just 10 of the 170 businesses located near the arena — he found that the tax contributions from team and spinoff development could grow to $43.8 million by 2013. By 2018, the number could be $60.7 million.
If the team left town, those taxes would not go to zero, Buser acknowledged. He noted that a possible casino could be “a huge factor,” but its effect was not part of his report.
Boy, you have to love that little caveat there, don’t you? They don’t put it up with the lede, the other place they say that there’s $30 million a year in tax revenue involved. Oh, no. They bury it at the bottom of the story, along with no attempt to enlighten us as to how much of this pot of tax revenue is actually generated by the team.
Wait, did you notice that the newspaper that printed this is a part owner of the team? And of the arena? There’s no conflict of interest here.
Quite aside from the question of whether there is any funny accounting going on here (though it can’t be as amusing as a couple of cases we looked at in class today; who here knew that you don’t have to liquidate LIFO layers when you close the books every quarter?), this is a marvelous attempt to insinuate that the team is more valuable to the city than it really is.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 5, 2009 9:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Its sad to hear this about the Jackets, I hope they can work things out. Great atmosphere in that arena. Put them in the East and cut their travels costs in half. I know that won’t fix their problems but it couldnt hurt.I don’t understand why they were in the west to begin with.
by genomachine-O on Nov 6, 2009 8:19 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Because there are 14 teams farther east than them, and the 15th (Atlanta) would have made for even worse travel misalignment than the Jackets.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 6, 2009 9:00 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs
my point is just the time zone changes alone for a lot of their games must be horrible for their fans. The Pens have been on a western road trip this week and I cant make it thru the games, they dont end til 1230-1:00 I hate that. Columbus goes thru that all the time. Idk im just spoiled my teams in the eastern conference i guess.
by genomachine-O on Nov 6, 2009 2:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Detroit is in the same boat. They’re Eastern time.
Also, there is the persistent rumor that Detroit was promised that if a spot in the Eastern Conference opened up, they’d get it before Columbus.
Columbus is just a bit of a strange franchise, imo. I can’t say that sticking a team in a small market that is obsessively devoted to the university sports teams is something I would have done. Seems almost like the Jackets were set up to fail.
by RedBirdie on Nov 6, 2009 11:20 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Which would return us back to the ’70s with all the O6 teams in the East except poor Chicago. I dunno, I kind of liked when it was three and three, before Toronto moved.
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by Doogie2K on Nov 6, 2009 11:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Columbus is an okay market. It’s like Nashville in some ways, overshadowed by a football giant and in need of revenue sharing, but there are a lot of people who have bought in. If you’re going to have a 30-team league, Columbus is a decent place to have a team.
Beautiful arena and development around it, too.
The NHL’s biggest problem is there are too many Columbuses that can’t keep pace with the top 12-14 teams.
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by James Mirtle on Nov 7, 2009 12:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
I can’t say that sticking a team in a small market that is obsessively devoted to the university sports teams is something I would have done.
Point of order: Raleigh/Durham has managed to support a team competing with three top-level sports schools to Columbus’s one. The combined football attendance of UNC, Duke and NC State together may struggle to match up to Ohio State some years, but all three of those schools sell out for basketball, the season that is in more direct conflict with hockey anyway and demands its attendees come mostly from the local market (as opposed to football games on Saturdays that pull a much wider geographic base).
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Nov 9, 2009 12:30 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
The Blue Jackets situation doesn’t seem to me to be quite as bad as some are portraying it. I would guess they are losing about $4-4.5 million annually on hockey operations, based on the figures quoted in many places. On the other hand, their total losses are a claimed $12 million annually and a total of $80 million in the past seven years. According to Doug MacLean, who I’ll admit isn’t the most credible source, $17 million of the $80 million total was during the lockout since, according to MacLean, team owner John McConnell refused to allow the team to RIF/layoff any employees.
Assuming a marginal 35% tax rate, the total loss over the time period becomes $52 million. In the meanwhile according to Forbes, the team was valued at $157 million. The team was purchased for $80 million in 1997. They clearly aren’t making money, but when you factor in capital gains of approximately $77 million and if sold a capital gains tax of 15% of the gain, the net gain is $65.45 over time. When offset by the $52 million, it’s a net gain of $13.5 million. It’s not a great return, but no one is going broke just yet.
by Leesk58 on Nov 6, 2009 12:07 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Assuming a marginal 35% tax rate, the total loss over the time period becomes $52 million.
Not quite. You can only take the net operating loss deduction against net income from some other year. If you don’t make any profits within the allowable carryforward period, you lose the deduction. At this point, any sensible auditor is probably making the Bluejackets put that whole deferred tax asset into a valuation allowance, and it has no accounting value at all.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 6, 2009 1:32 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again, I question the NHL’s ability to project the true “viability” of an expansion market. It would be fun to see the original projections adopted at the time to see if they played out to be anything close to accurate and revisit the NHL’s expansion process. We’re basically at the decade mark of the team’s history – and 10 year projections are pretty much worthless. But I think James is right, and there’s a good chance the NHL is going to seek to expand again in a few years – expansion dollars are the quickest way to get a decent chunk of cash per team quickly – the League’s expansion diligence process is going to be vital to its long-term future.
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by poploser on Nov 6, 2009 12:27 PM CST reply actions 0 recs
Is Columbus really a small market?
The population was 711,470 at the 2000 census. In 2008, Columbus was the 16th largest city in the United States, with 754,885 residents, and was also the 32nd largest metropolitan area, the fourth largest city in the Midwest, and the fourth most populous state capital in the U.S. after Phoenix, Indianapolis, and Austin.[citation needed] According to the U.S. Census, the metropolitan area has a population of 1,773,120, and the Combined Statistical Area (which also includes Marion and Chillicothe) has a population of 1,982,252.6 Columbus is located within 550 miles (890 km) of half of the population of the United States.7
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by Urban Sombrero on Nov 7, 2009 3:27 AM CST reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it is when it comes to pro sports. See here.
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by James Mirtle on Nov 7, 2009 12:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs
This post is completely disingenuous. Columbus is not a big market. Yes, it’s population is bigger than that of Boston, or St. Paul, or Sacramento, or Annapolis, or Atlanta, or Denverbut all of those are a part of much bigger metropolitan areas, so saying that it is the fourth most populous capital city is meaningless.
Is it within 550 miles of half of the US population? I’ll take your word for it. Of course, so is Lexington, KY, Harrisburg, PA, and dozens of other cities. It doesn’t mean that a hockey team would be successful in any of them.
James is right. With a 30 team league, Columbus isn’t a bad place to have a team. I don’t think that it’s actually one of the top 27 markets, which is what you have after you eliminate one extra team for LA, and two for NY, but it’s close enough that it’s a reasonable choice. It just isn’t the case that there are 27 hockey markets in North America that can be roughly competitive with each other.
by J. Michael Neal on Nov 7, 2009 3:08 PM CST up reply actions 1 recs
Where did my link go?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbus,_Ohio
"I'm gonna hire you as my latex salesman? I don't think so. Why would I do that?"
"Vandelay! Say Vandelay Industries!"
"And you wanna be my latex salesman?"
by Urban Sombrero on Nov 7, 2009 3:29 AM CST reply actions 0 recs

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