The Canucks' latest Snuffleupagus

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 12:59 PM CST Comment 63 comments

Messierc_medium

Vancouver doesn't have the reputation as being an incredibly difficult market to play in, but it absolutely is. And anyone who's lived in B.C. long enough knows the reason.

They're desperate — perhaps more so than any other market. Not for a championship, necessarily, but for something resembling a sustained contender and the ability to puff out their chest, just a bit. Especially when the Canucks have often only offered up their own brand of awful for as long as almost anyone can remember.

Enter Mats Sundin, one of the best players in the NHL last season and a boat anchor through nine games as a Canuck.

There's not much sunshine on the West Coast lately. Here's the Vancouver Sun's Iain MacIntyre:

I was wrong recently when I said no matter how badly Sundin played — none of us envisioned this — he wouldn't hurt the Canucks, as general manager Mike Gillis surrendered no players to get him. The only possible loser was owner Francesco Aquilini because he's paying Sundin $5 million for the balance of the season.

But Sundin is hurting the Canucks because he is a liability on the ice and coach Alain Vigneault has no way out of this trap but to hope the Swede suddenly finds his form.

His form? It hasn't been so hot so far:

Vigneault played Sundin with Kesler and Burrows Saturday and the line looked like two cheetahs and a Snuffleupagus.

It's only been nine games, but Canucks fans have seen this movie before. This is a franchise with a history of Snuffleupaguses and not much else. Heck, Roberto Luongo's already one of the team's all-time greats, placing fourth in goaltender wins in just 2.5 seasons as a Canuck.

No NHL team established as long as Vancouver has as poor a track record. This is the Canucks' 38th NHL season, and the only three teams with worse all-time records are a trio of basket cases in Tampa Bay, Columbus and Atlanta.

In 38 seasons, Vancouver's made the playoffs only 21 times, winning five division titles (less than 14 other franchises) and posting a .466 points percentage — which is behind Winnipeg/Phoenix, Hartford/Carolina and even Florida. The team's two trips to the Stanley Cup finals are the all-time highlights, outnumbered significantly by a slew of lowlights (many that MacIntyre mentions) and a revolving door of funky jerseys.

Me, I know the plight of Canucks fans well. I grew up surrounded by them and even cheered for the team my family and friends all followed after Vancouver became the feel good story in 1994 during a run to the finals.

My fandom didn't last. It's tough to stick with a sadsack franchise when it's been a nearly 40-year drought, but many in B.C. somehow do. My old man's been rooting for the team to turn things since he was a teenager, and still keeps the faith.

I don't know how. But I respect his dedication.

If Vancouver loses tonight, they'll likely toss coach Alain Vigneault overboard and be in search of their latest saviour behind the bench.

I wonder if Big Bird is available.

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As a Leafs fan living in Vancouver

I thank you for this valuable resource, chock full of fun facts to share. Kudos!

Also, I can’t wait till the Vancouver media focuses its ire on the real problem: Canucks fans. If those sheep had started voting with their feet and refusing to support this embarrassment, the Canucks would have won some Cups by now. That’s what Damien Cox and Howard Berger have taught me, anyways….

by Godd Till on Feb 3, 2009 1:14 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Boy, there was that one period there they stopped coming out in droves. I think they averaged 13,000 a game one season.

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 1:18 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I second Mr Till’s thoughts.. It’s always baffled me how fans of a team with such a sorry record can possibly bash on the Leafs as much as they do.

Kudos to your dad though, it goes against the trend here where the fans run extremely hot or extremely cold. I can tell how the `nucks are doing just when I come in to work by how the receptionist has her desk set up. Flags up and she’s wearing a Luongo jersey? They must be doing good! All traces of canuck paraphernalia gone? They must be in the tank again.

Lots of sore ankles in this town..

by LeafFanInVan on Feb 3, 2009 1:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Canuck fans bash on everyone. Leaf fans, Flames fans Oiler fans, hell, even Montreal fans. It’s a self defence mechanism, I think, as they are so insecure they figure ignorant arrogance will compensate. As it is, I’ve found Canuck fans to be the worst fan base I’ve ever encountered.

Oddly though, Vancouver Giants fans are awesome.

by Resolute on Feb 4, 2009 10:18 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Any team with a passionate fan base

will have members that bash on everyone else. As a Canucks fan, I’ve seen plenty of bashing and trolling from fans of the Flames and Oilers, especially after their Stanley Cup runs. It was natural for Canucks fans to fight back, like when the team made it further than both Albertan teams in 07 did in the playoffs. It’s all natural geographic rivalry. As for the Leafs, well, find me another team in Canada whose fans don’t hate the teams. I don’t see a lot of hatred towards the Habs, maybe other than a few who are simply jealous of their successful history.

by SJKel on Feb 4, 2009 3:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Naturally so. Canuck fans are worse than the average though. Sure there are great Canuck fans, but on average, I find them to be more arrogant than other teams, and more belligerent. Saddledome security absolutely HATES Vancouver games specifically because of Canuck fans. They don’t have half the problems when the Oilers, Leafs or Habs come to town a they routinely encounter when we’re playing Vancouver. ymmv

by Resolute on Feb 4, 2009 5:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right about saddledome

but could it be because we’re talking about Calgary, the biggest rival in many ways? Say all you want about Flames-Oilers rivalry, they haven’t played each other in the playoffs in many years. The Flames is the biggest rival of the Canucks in many ways, especially because the year they played each other in the playoffs was also the year the Canucks had the best hope. The Flames not only upset the Canucks but went on to the Finals, the first time in a decade for a Canadian team. I’ve been to GM Place and I even sat beside a few Wild fans during the 03 playoffs. People were respectful and nobody said bad things about them or their team.

by SJKel on Feb 4, 2009 6:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

It was never this bad in the heyday of the BOA, however. It really is the fans. There are so very few Canuck fans in the Dome during those games that aren’t complete a-holes. By and large, they are out to be idiots, to pick fights and to ruin the experience for the people around them. It’s almost like Saskatchewan Roughrider fans these days… it often seems like there is some point of pride in behaving like a dick in enemy territory. The attitude in GM place is likely very different, but from what I’ve seen and experienced in both Calgary and Edmonton, I have almost nothing good to say about Canuck fans. As a group, you’ve done nothing to earn my respect.

by Resolute on Feb 5, 2009 12:17 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

James, that was the Messier period, right? Were people worried about the team’s viability in that era? I wonder if a better hockey team could have spilled over to helping the Grizzlies attendance.

by Godd Till on Feb 3, 2009 1:31 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was quite bummed out when the Grizzlies moved, I wanted an NBA franchise here.. But I guess it just wouldn’t work for a number of reasons. Sad.

by LeafFanInVan on Feb 3, 2009 1:36 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I was quite bummed out when the Grizzlies moved

So was Bill Laurie, since he wanted to grab them himself and move them to St. Louis. Once that chance vanished, his newfound interest in this “hockey” thing quickly waned, and he got this funny idea that trading Chris Pronger would make the Blues “more attractive” for a future buyer.

Owners do the darnedest things.

Lighthouse Hockey: an SB Nation New York Islanders blog with hip issues.

by Dominik on Feb 3, 2009 2:24 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I believe it’s the Messier era. There was an empty threat about relocation, but most realized that the only reason the team was losing money was that the team was losing on ice with no hope in sight. What transpired afterwards showed clearly that the fan support is really strong in Vancouver. People started coming back as soon as they saw a glimmer of hope. They had quite a few good young players and it was sad that management trusted Cloutier way too much. Bertuzzi’s assault and subsequent suspension didn’t help, but even with him in the lineup, the Canucks wouldn’t have done much in 04 with Alex Auld backstopping the team (Cloutier played well for 2 games against Calgary and got injured in the 3rd game).

by SJKel on Feb 3, 2009 2:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

What transpired afterwards showed clearly that the bandwagon support is really strong in Vancouver.

Cleaned that up for you.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 3, 2009 2:39 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

So if fans keep supporting the team when it sucks, they are stupid. If fans only support the team when it doesn’t suck, they’re bandwagon jumpers. If fans don’t support the team at all, they are not fans, by definition. You’ve found the perfect argument against fans of any team that you don’t like. (Forget that the same applies to fans of your favorite team too).

by SJKel on Feb 3, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Well...

So if fans keep supporting the team when it sucks, they are stupid.

I’ve never said that. Ever. If fans don’t support the team when they suck then they are in fact bandwagon jumpers.

(Forget that the same applies to fans of your favorite team too)

Idiot columnists in the city and fans of teams with tepid support might make that argument but remind me when was the last time the Leafs’ attendance was 13K per game?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 3, 2009 3:44 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry I confused you with someone else who wrote

“Canucks fans. If those sheep had started voting with their feet and refusing to support this embarrassment, the Canucks would have won some Cups by now.”

FYI, we’re talking about 13K out of 2.1 million people in Greater Vancouver. At that ratio, given the Toronto area population (5.5 million), that translates to a 34K crowd, which is 1.7 times the sellout crowd at Air Canada Centre.

by SJKel on Feb 3, 2009 4:11 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, he was being sarcastic because that’s the argument that people make about Leafs fans.

The Leafs could get a crowd of 34K if the ACC was that big.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 3, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know why they didn’t just build a huge cavern to play in. They could sell out a 45,000 seater.

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm not saying the Leafs can't sell out more seats

I’m just pointing out a 13K crowd in Vancouver isn’t as bad as some people from large population area think. Even Boston drew under $15K in their lean years, with double the population. Similar for Chicago, but with an even larger population. (And I’m not using nontraditional markets for comparison).

by SJKel on Feb 3, 2009 4:56 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because they stupidly bought a basketball arena and never changed the drawings. It’s the same reason that there are about 100-200 seats that have obstructed views.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 3, 2009 9:03 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Those are the only seats I ever get. :(((((

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Feb 4, 2009 8:56 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because MLSE personally hates everyone who’s a Leafs fan. The ACC’s replacement will have exactly six seats and no room for cameras.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Feb 4, 2009 8:58 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Canucks’ 10-3 run beginning in late October seems like a lifetime ago, winning only 8 of its next 28 games, and none of the last 8. Forever a hero in Leaf-land, Sundin may find his place in Canuck history next to Messier and Bertuzzi.

http://puckreport.blogspot.com

by puckreport on Feb 3, 2009 2:38 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Forever a hero in Leafland? Seriously?

Sundin’s “heart” and ability to be Captain of the Leafs as a european were constantly called into question by the Toronto media.

Pension Plan Puppets*
* Blog contains less than 2% puppet content by weight.

by Chemmy on Feb 4, 2009 8:57 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Wait, so the Canucks may have a job opening for a head coach, and he needs experience dealing with fat, lazy, overpaid prima donnas?

Craig Hartsburg, come on down!

Down Goes Brown - Unapologetically nostalgic for the past. Brutally realistic about the present. Grudgingly optimistic about the future.

by Down Goes Brown on Feb 3, 2009 2:57 PM CST reply actions 1 recs

I might be missing something here but… IF the team was doing good, like battling for first in its division despite its star goaltender out with injury, AND started doing badly right as Sundin was added… Why in the world would you fire a Jack Adams winning coach for that??
Just send Sundin to the minors and be done with it. This has nothing to do with Vigneault.

by Habs on Feb 3, 2009 3:10 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Sundin is far from the only problem. For one thing, the penalty kill has been atrocious. For another, the team’s transition game is brutal, and the defence have real problems getting the puck up ice.

by Godd Till on Feb 3, 2009 3:12 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

indeed

the waiving of Sanford sticks in my mind as well. He was a true team guy and really liked in the dressing room.

by Karina on Feb 3, 2009 5:19 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

They were bad before Sundin got there, too, but he arrived and made things worse. Some how.

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 3:22 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

And for a final thing, that should read “Jack Adams winning goalie” because it’s pretty clear Vigneault isn’t really that good of a coach.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 3, 2009 3:45 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Not only has he made the Nucks worse, but Sundin has screwed over countless fantasy team owners. Thinking that he was a point-a-game player even on the crappy Leafs, and he’d really light it up in Vancouver…well, it pains me to type this, but I dropped Krejci for him.

I’d like to drop him right now, but I’m giving him one more night. My patience is wearing thin.

Snuffleupagus is right.

by feelingkettle on Feb 3, 2009 3:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Ugh

You can’t reference Vancouver, the laughable Messier years and the unfortunate Sundin signing without the side-by-side; it’s the visual cherry on top (better still: it’s the Messier Leadership award too).

by Yankee Canuck on Feb 3, 2009 4:33 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

I kinda liked triumphant Mess in the orca jersey.

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 4:46 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

There’s just something about those two bald heads side by side. It mocks me a little.

by Yankee Canuck on Feb 3, 2009 5:42 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

At least they’re sharing the leadership award …

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 6:27 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But who won the followship award?

/Jack Donaghy

by smyttysmullet on Feb 3, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Where did Mats get his jacket?

Moore’s?
Multi millionaire and he can’t get a properly tailored jacket?
At least the Lays Potato chip guy used his money to get a decent suit.

by Exit716 on Feb 3, 2009 9:57 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

My view has always to feel a little sorry for the Canucks…I remember when they started about 40 yrs ago, and they got no respect as the third big league Canadian team…then, it was sharing the city with the WHA Blazers…next came the influx of former WHA teams north of the border, and as the Oilers, Flames and then the Sens became more successful, the Canucks seemed to get pushed further down the pecking order.

Still, they represent the NHL in the far Pacific northwest corner of both countries, so for that reason alone, you’d think they would get more respect.

by tbell61 on Feb 3, 2009 10:05 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Have you ever spoken to a Canucks fan? There is a good reason that they don’t get much respect.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 4, 2009 9:19 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I've spoken to many, online and in person.

There are plenty of knowledgeable, intelligent and friendly ones. Of course, there are a lot of immature ones too, but I don’t think there are more immature fans of the Canucks than those of, say, the Oilers or the Flames. The long time ones (who stayed with the team when they were bottom feeders) are unique in one way: they all feel that something bad is about to happen, if it’s not already happening.

by SJKel on Feb 4, 2009 3:26 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m just busting your chops ;) They say the same about every fanbase.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Feb 4, 2009 11:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

James, how many tries did it take to spell Snuffleupagus right?

by J. Michael Neal on Feb 3, 2009 10:13 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

It’s in MacIntyre’s column, so I could just copy and paste.

by James Mirtle on Feb 3, 2009 10:49 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I say that article’s an insult to Snuffy, but to each his own, I guess.

by Doogie2K on Feb 3, 2009 11:38 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I’m guessing he wouldn’t make much of an elite NHL centre. Not sure that’s an insult.

by James Mirtle on Feb 4, 2009 11:03 AM CST up reply actions 0 recs

But think of the reach he would have as a defenseman! :)

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Feb 4, 2009 12:34 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Heck, sit him in goal.

by James Mirtle on Feb 4, 2009 2:01 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Might be tricky to fit a mask to his trunk, though. Especially if he wore a blocker on it.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Feb 4, 2009 4:15 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly you missed the episode of Sesame Street with Wayne Gretzky and Snuffy in a shootout competition. I learned a valuable lesson about being a good winner — and a good loser — that day.

by Doogie2K on Feb 4, 2009 9:37 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"It's tough to stick with a sadsack franchise when it's been a nearly 40-year drought"

Couldn’t you say the same thing about the Leafs?

Game Over T-shirts: http://www.cafepress.com/beltwaysports

by CStoneNo37 on Feb 4, 2009 12:28 PM CST reply actions 0 recs

Yes, and every fan and their mothers remind us everyday. Unfortunately, the Canucks can’t exactly manufacture the history of an Original Six franchise. I’m willing to bet every Canucks fan knows the exact year when the Leafs last won a cup, but just as many couldn’t identify what year the Canucks franchise came into the NHL. But good attempt on the Leafs bashing. ;)

Supporter of the Sergei Berezin "Give and Go" - You give me puck, then you go to hell

by bkblades on Feb 4, 2009 1:54 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Because the Leafs get all the attention in the media. If you watch TV in Vancouver, you hear more about the Leafs than the Canucks.

It’s not the drought, but the number of years with no hope. I’ve been a fan of the Canucks since 96, and there have been only two seasons where I expected the team to challenge for the Cup (02-04), and they ended up not being even close. It’s been this bad.

by SJKel on Feb 4, 2009 3:43 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

no you don't

I live in Vancouver, and constantly hear about the Canucks and the on-the-bandwagon, off-the-bandwagon attitude in this city. There’s no consistency, it’s either all or nothing, but whether the city currently loves them or hates them, they’re everywhere.

by Karina on Feb 4, 2009 5:50 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

it depends on the TV station

I was talking about TSN and CBC. Both national but supposedly have local edition, yet the local edition simply puts the Canucks news first (if there’s a game that night)

I agree there are quite a few bandwagon fans who don’t care unless the team is winning, but there are also hardcore ones (like Mr. Mirtle senior) that love the team and are willing to watch them game in and game out.

by SJKel on Feb 4, 2009 6:57 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps, and they’re desperate, too, but there’s something unique about Vancouver as a hockey market. I don’t know how to describe it. They’ve just had so many bad seasons and frittered away good teams when they had them.

The Canucks are a depressing team to cheer for.

by James Mirtle on Feb 4, 2009 2:02 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

"They’ve just had so many bad seasons and frittered away good teams when they had them."

Kinda like the Capitals from the mid-’80s on… Good in the regular season, flamed out in the playoffs because the owner refused to go out and get the one or two missing pieces they needed to put them over the top. Then the Jagr years…

Actually about 90% of your description of the history of the Canucks could be applied to the Capitals. The Canucks have only been around 4 years longer than the Caps and Vancouver has one more Stanley Cup Finals appearance than Washington. I guess the only difference is the Caps are good NOW (and they don’t play in a Canadian market so there’s far less scrutiny). Patience pays off, I guess.

Game Over T-shirts: http://www.cafepress.com/beltwaysports

by CStoneNo37 on Feb 4, 2009 2:40 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The Caps do have A.O. locked up for life… it’s kinda hard to bash on a team in this situation.

by Habs on Feb 4, 2009 2:41 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

I think that unless your team has won a Cup within reason memory...

you’re going to have reason to bitch…take the Blues…everyone knows the only reason the Blues have three Cup Finals appearances are due to a gift from the League in those days where the team coming out of the all-expansion West Division went automatically to the Finals, and all we have to show for it is 0-12 and getting eliminated on one of the most dramatic goals in Stanley Cup History. Since then, a few starts but mostly stops. What I wouldn’t give just to get to the Finals again, this time legitimately. But if you’ve one even one Cup, I’d take the money and run, if I were you…The Flames, for instance, may have only won one Cup, and it seems like a long time ago, but it is ONE Cup, and I’d trade places with any Calgary fan in the blink of an eye.

by tbell61 on Feb 4, 2009 4:29 PM CST up reply actions 0 recs

The number of people here throwing stones from glass houses is pretty funny. Rather than directly finger pointing, allow me to suggest that 90% of any major sports team’s fans, from Vancouver to Montreal to Toronto to Nashville, are uninformed, bandwagon jumpers, and overall obnoxious. Why? Because 90% of sports fans only have a casual interest in it. Most people aren’t here on the blogs with other hardcore fans, they’re out watching a couple games a week, they watch SportsCentre, and maybe they read the sports section in the weekend paper if you’re lucky.

PS: Snuffleupagus was first star last night.

by Hobbes61 on Feb 4, 2009 9:12 PM CST reply actions 0 recs