Berenson on the CHL and scholarships
Just a quick follow up to my previous post: Here's a short sidebar on one NCAA coach's perspective on increasing scholarships in the CHL and the competition for players. Red Berenson, a former NHLer, has seen a lot in 25 years as head coach at UMich and doesn't mince words.
8 months ago
James Mirtle
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Contaminating? Is Berenson suggesting that the CHL is structured in such a way as to deliberately make it impossible for kids to go NCAA? From my perspective this looks like a two way street. Berenson is complaining that the CHL is causing players to lose NCAA eligibility for 1 game at 15, when it’s the NCAA eligibility system that makes that the case. If a kid could play CHL hockey and then play NCAA, certainly more Canadian kids would take the NCAA option.
Furthermore, the NCAA’s eligibility rules seem detrimental to basketball and football players too. They have to declare for the draft, and thus lose their NCAA eligibility. A kid makes the wrong call then and there’s no going back for him.
To be perfectly frank, I’m not sure the NCAA’s eligibility rules as they currently stand do a damn bit of good.
by MattM on Mar 18, 2009 5:30 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty much exactly what I was going to say. Certainly at this point, I don’t buy why a $50-100/wk stipend makes these kids “professionals,” by NCAA criteria. If they’ve played an ECHL/AHL/IHL/SPHL game, then fine, but unless they’re making outrageous sums of money in endorsements and incentives, there’s no good reason why a little gas and walking-around money should keep these kids from getting an education at an institute the NHL actually scouts.
(Why the NHL doesn’t scout CIS schools is kind of odd, in and of itself. You might find the odd late bloomer, if nothing else.)
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)
by Doogie2K on Mar 19, 2009 12:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of which, Joel Ward has been fantastic for the Preds.
by James Mirtle on Mar 19, 2009 12:39 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you know why NHL teams don’t bother with Canadian university hockey, as a general rule? It seems like one of those leftovers from the old days when university hockey simply didn’t have the talent to make it worthwhile, which I really doubt is still the case. I wonder if some NHL teams started scouting it, and signed a couple of decent free agents after graduation, if that might not make school a more attractive option than riding the buses in Fresno for 20-year-old CHLers.
SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)
by Doogie2K on Mar 19, 2009 9:05 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s going to take one team doing it and finding some gems for it to really get in vogue. There are more and more CIS guys going and playing in the AHL when they graduate, but Ward’s really the first guy to step in and make an impact in the NHL. He’s been phenomenal, and is a good testament to the quality of players in CIS.
by James Mirtle on Mar 19, 2009 11:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
At the top of his Head?
Did Berenson have a point to make?
I realize it may have been lost in the editing process.
"his team will spend upward of $400,000 (U.S.) on scholarships this season. "
And they don’t even think about getting a return on that $400,000
Its all about the kids getting an education
by Mr DeBakey on Mar 18, 2009 10:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I’m as big a critic of the NCAA as you’ll find, but Berenson’s not a particularly good target here. All the indications are that he really does care about the academic side of things. The 1997 class that was so good featured three Econ majors (Morrison, Botterill, Luhning), which isn’t a dummy major at Michigan, Blake Sloan’s honors English degree, and Harold Schock, who is now one of the leading medical authorities on knee injuries in the country. Currently, Steve Kampfer is in my father’s statistical methods class, which also isn’t an easy grade.
You have to consider Red’s background. He originally came to Ann Arbor when playing in the NCAA was considered a death sentence to the possibility of an NHL career. The extent to which he still thinks this is about an education is often touchingly naive.
by J. Michael Neal on Mar 19, 2009 7:02 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
“And they don’t even think about getting a return on that $400,000
Its all about the kids getting an education”
I took my family to a game at soldout Yost Arena at the University of Michigan during the 2007-08 season. Wikipedia tells me that capacity is 6,637 and the stub in front of me tells me that is cost $23 for a seat in the last row. Sideline and Club seats were more.
This season, 133,375 people went through the turnstiles at Yost. If the average seat is $30 (and I’m betting it is more), that’s $4,001,250 in revenue from ticket sales at home. Plus TV rights, the sale of foam #1 fingers, parking, hot dogs, etc…
C’mon Red, give us a break. The University of Michigan is as much about grooming hockey players for the NHL as the Kamloops Blazers, London Knights or Rimouski Oceanic are.
by Washcaphockey on Mar 18, 2009 11:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
That’s just the cost of the scholarships. Not the equipment, facilities, coaches contracts, etc. Hockey is a non revenue sport for a reason.
First of all, I think this is a non-issue largely because the NCAA becoming more American can only help hockey in the US. That said, allowing CHL players to play in the NCAA (with some stipulation that they can’t have played after they’ve graduated from high school) would be fine with me. As would allowing unsigned NFL or NBA draft picks to play football and basketball like they do in baseball.
by Brodie on Mar 19, 2009 1:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure if it fits here or in the junior thread more, but when discussing junior hockey and college hockey, the thing that always sticks in my mind is something Berenson said to me when I interviewed him a year ago.
He was talking about a player on his team and how the player kept on moving up from different levels of hockey despite him not being completely ready for the new challenge. The way he phrased it was a commentary as much on developing young men as it was on developing hockey players.
There are clear reasons why the CHL and the NCAA are competing with one another for future players and there’s a clear reason why the NCAA continues to grow, not just in hockey but in every sport and I don’t know if those reasons are purely focused on the idea of developing young men and women, or even helping young men and women achieve their dreams in professional sports.
-Kevin Forbes
Hockey's Future
by kforbes on Mar 19, 2009 2:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It needs to be said again, but Berenson needs to pull his head out of his ass. The CHL: has no requirement to play by the NCAA’s draconian rules on eligibility, and the only group “contaminating” the players is the NCAA itself.
He also clearly has no idea how it works in Canada. I have copies of recruiting manuals that document the differences between major junior and Junior A, explaining how it affects eligiblity to play in CIS, CCAA, NCAA, etc, and educational liasons for both CHL and CJHL teams explain all of this as part of recruiting.
As usual, the NCAA needs to get over itself.
by Resolute on Mar 19, 2009 4:09 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
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