Comparing this year to last: Attendance

by James Mirtle on Mar 23, 2009 12:17 AM CDT Comment 20 comments

I've run this stat a few times this season, and for whatever reason, it's a popular one. We've already heard a ton about attendance increases in Chicago and Washington this season, but where is attendance down the most? And where do the other 28 teams come in in terms of getting more bodies in their buildings?

It's worth noting that these are the announced figures as per ESPN:

RK	TEAM	2007-08	2008-09	Dif
1	Chicago*	16,814	22,373	5,559
2	Washington	15,472	18,077	2,605
3	Boston	15,384	16,982	1,598
4	Detroit	18,870	19,834	964
5	St. Louis	17,610	18,481	871
6	Columbus	14,823	15,399	576
7	Phoenix	14,820	14,954	134
8	New Jersey	15,564	15,677	113
9	San Jose	17,411	17,487	76
10	Florida	15,436	15,506	70
11	Calgary	19,289	19,289	0
12	Edmonton	16,839	16,839	0
13	Minnesota	18,568	18,568	0
14	Montreal	21,273	21,273	0
15	Vancouver	18,630	18,630	0
16	NY Islanders	13,640	13,614	-26
17	NY Rangers**	18,200	18,169	-31
18	Philadelphia	19,556	19,521	-35
19	Pittsburgh**	17,076	16,955	-121
20	Toronto	19,434	19,295	-139
21	Nashville	14,910	14,763	-147
22	Los Angeles	16,606	16,372	-234
23	Anaheim	17,193	16,945	-248
24	Carolina	16,633	16,327	-306
25	Dallas	18,038	17,682	-356
26	Ottawa**	19,821	18,899	-922
27	Colorado	16,842	15,595	-1,247
28	Atlanta	15,831	14,443	-1,388
29	Buffalo*	19,950	18,511	-1,439
30	Tampa Bay**	18,692	16,408	-2,284
		17,308	17,429	121

It's frankly very, very sad what's happened in Tampa Bay this season — and it was all pretty predictable. Good luck to the OK Hockey boys in terms of selling tickets for next season.

Other cities on the "bad" end of the scale have also had poor performances on the ice. Buffalo's way, way down and will likely miss the playoffs, while the Avalanche have had more empty seats this season than at any other time in the franchise's history in Denver.

Ticket sales are way up in Boston, Detroit and St. Louis, and it appears the Blue Jackets' terrific performance on the ice lately is paying off. Good for them.

** Teams that went to Europe were given one date in a smallish building at the start of the season, and that impacts attendance a little bit for those four teams. The effect would be less than 200 seats per game, however, on the season average.

* These teams totals have been impacted by the Winter Classic, either this season or last.

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It’s frankly very, very sad what’s happened in Tampa Bay this season — and it was all pretty predictable.

QFT

Also, it would be interesting to see what % of capacity these attendance figures come out at, and the % difference. Some of these teams at the “bad” end of the scale might actually be that bad, and still at high capacity for the size of their building. Alternatively, some of the teams at the “good” end might be looking better by this metric, but still be at a low portion of their capacity.

by IAmJoe on Mar 23, 2009 12:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

(Arg, moving things into a nice order to match James’ post, I deleted half of it!)

Wikipedia has a nice group of active NHL arenas, and lists capacities for each, so I’ve taken all this data from wikipedia for each arena in the NHL. If you want to stick that into the original post, James, maybe with a %ofcapacity column too. Helps explain a couple attendance numbers in the original post, like SJ only drawing 17,487 this year (max is only 17,496).

Chicago (United Center) – 20,500
Washington (Verizon Center) – 18,277
Boston (TD Banknorth Garden) – 17,565
Detroit (Joe Louis Arena) – 20,066
St. Louis (Scottrade Center) – 19,250
Columbus (Nationwide Arena) – 18,144
Phoenix (Jobing.com Arena) – 17,799
New Jersey (Prudential Center) – 17,625
San Jose (HP Pavilion) – 17,496
Florida (BankAtlantic Center) – 19,250
Calgary (Pengrowth Saddledome) – 19,289
Edmonton (Rexall Place) – 16,839
Minnesota (Xcel Energy Center) – 18,064
Montreal (Bell Centre) – 21,273
Vancouver (General Motors Place) – 18,630
NYI (Nassau Coliseum) – 16,234
NYR (Madison Square Garden) – 18,200
Philadelphia (Wachovia Center) – 19,519
Pittsburgh (Mellon Arena) – 16,940
Toronto (Air Canada Centre) – 18,819
Nashville (Sommet Center) – 17,113
Los Angeles (Staples Center) – 18,118
Anaheim (Honda Center) – 17,174
Carolina (RBC Center) – 18,680
Dallas (American Airlines Center) – 18,532
Ottawa (Scotiabank Place) – 19,153
Colorado (Pepsi Center) – 18,007
Atlanta (Philips Arena) – 18,545
Buffalo (HSBC Arena) – 18,690
Tampa Bay (St. Pete Times Forum) – 19,500

On a side note, its sad to see how few arenas out there don’t bear some sort of terribad sponsorship name.

by IAmJoe on Mar 23, 2009 1:49 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Also, Chicago is averaging over 2K over their maximum capacity, due to the Winter Classic. Any clue how large the effect of the Classic was? I was surprised to see Detroit near the top of your list, did they get anything attendance-wise out of the Winter Classic?

Buffalo’s attendance for last year was over 1,000 over the supposed maximum capacity, and the number for this year is actually only about 180 below maximum capacity. Might be a standing room only issue, I didn’t list standing room only numbers, as not all arenas had them listed, and many of them were only differences of <500. Not sure who else that might effect.

by IAmJoe on Mar 23, 2009 2:07 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buffalo's Winter Classic

Last year’s numbers for Buffalo are very much impacted by the Winter Classic. 73,000 people for one game is going to skew the numbers quite a bit, and there is no standing room in HSBC Arena. (At least none that I’ve ever seen or have been able to buy tickets for) Attendance has gone down a bit this year, but in reality it is only a few hundred seats per game, as the 18,511 average indicates based on the capacity IAmJoe mentions.

by GoldenGoose on Mar 23, 2009 5:38 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buffalo

I would assume you’re right about standing room, because Buffalo never announces attendance of over 18,690 (except in the case of the Winter Classic, of course). And while I could be remembering incorrectly I think they had a game or two last year that didn’t sell out, so without the Classic their attendance would be have been just a touch under 18,690.

by PaperBoats on Mar 23, 2009 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're correct

They didn’t sell out every non-Winter Classic game last year, and this year wasn’t much different.

It’s actually more tied to the insane variable pricing and the economy than the Sabres’ struggles. They created a “platinum” tier of games (which Sabres mgmt has since admitted a mistake on pricing too high) where all Toronto home games and a couple of Montreal home games were priced at a $80 minimum for all tickets to try and maximize revenue. Well, it failed miserably as even Toronto fans coming down got priced out by the time the crappy economy took hold.

You’ll see more of a “real” attendance drop next year if Buffalo doesn’t make changes to the roster. We’re all fed up with the status quo from the team and management here. Now with the economy and putting our little discretionary money elsewhere, we’re prepared on telling them with our checkbooks. This team just isn’t worth it anymore.

Shut up when you're talking to me!

by Afino on Mar 23, 2009 7:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Fascinating that Toronto only has the 19th highest capacity in their building. You’d think the owners, knowing it would be sold out with 30 000 seats anyway, would invest on re-tooling for more seats?

by Habs on Mar 23, 2009 12:08 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The ACC was originally built for just the Raptors. I think if the Leafs had had their own facility built, it’d be the biggest in the NHL.

by James Mirtle on Mar 23, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is there a football stadium around they could take over and roof over? :)

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Mar 23, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And you can tell that they didn’t alter the drawings once they bought the Raptors and the ACC by the number of seats with an obstructed view.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Mar 25, 2009 10:25 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The people in Denver have spoken

That they were selling out games only because the team was winning.

by SJKel on Mar 23, 2009 12:25 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Would you pay to watch the team they’ve got now?

by James Mirtle on Mar 23, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wish they would at least suck so bad that they have to give away tickets like some of the Southeast teams do. Maybe then I’d go to a Avs game, even as a Wings fan.

by IAmJoe on Mar 23, 2009 1:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, I wouldn't.

But the point is that when the Avs were perennial contender and selling out every game, there were many fans of that team who denied that the main reason the fans were supporting because of winning. They wanted us to believe they truly love hockey and would continue to sell out games even if the team were not a Cup contender. I have been waiting for a long time for the team to miss the playoffs to test their claim.

by SJKel on Mar 23, 2009 3:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

They did miss in 2006-07 though.

Attendance has been declining in Denver for years now. This is just the continuation of a trend of people moving away from the team, which doesn’t bode well.

I still think it’s a decent market, but it shows what winning can do.

by James Mirtle on Mar 23, 2009 3:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Winning matters…or not winning matters in nearly every US market.

My parents now live out in Denver and the prices are shockingly high there—especially when you consider how far back from the ice the upper deck seats are. Like the United Center the upstairs seats at the Pepsi Center are not a great place to watch hockey compared to some other NHL buildings.

by The Falconer on Mar 23, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is this attendance or PAID Attendance? Also would be nice to see the average ticket price data too...

There obviously is something here and this data is basically good but it’s clear from looking at some team websites they are working real hard to get some more butts in the seats even though they’ve already increased attendance a fair amount an that includes Florida who has run a number of interesting marketing efforts to get more fans in the seats and introduced to the sport. They unlike Tampa have a good product on the ice and it’s good to see it might be working – I’m a Caps fan and season ticket holder and their numbers are way up from four years ago when I started being an STH. 11 through 15 are all sold out every game – surprise to me is Pittsburgh who I thought also sold out every game.

by markbona-capsfan99 on Mar 23, 2009 5:00 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

these are the announced figures as per ESPN

by James Mirtle on Mar 23, 2009 5:29 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, Pitt’s numbers this year are above sell-out capacity. Mellon Arena is tiny.

by IAmJoe on Mar 23, 2009 11:22 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

its all about those teams who sell out season after season. 4 of 5 are canadian, and the other 1 is minnesota. i’m glad we have determined that the nhl doesnt need any more canadian teams

by slutnuts on Mar 25, 2009 10:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs