A note for Coyotes fans

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 6:00 AM CDT Comment 103 comments

2009-2010seasontix_320_medium

Seems like a good deal.

One of the truly unfortunate things about the events on Tuesday with the Coyotes declaring bankruptcy is the fact that fans in Phoenix are being thrown under the bus. There are few guarantees the team will be on the ice this October, when only three days ago that seemed a certainty, and that's not really fair for any fan base, regardless of its size.

For them, it looks bleak.

The reasons the Coyotes are in jeopardy are numerous, and they've been covered off extensively already throughout this process. For the abbreviated version, The Falconer offers a very succinct analysis of how things went wrong.

None of these things are the fault of the actual fans in Phoenix, obviously, but that doesn't change some of the hard feelings being exchanged these days. Because Jim Balsilie has included in his purchase arrangement details that specifically spell out where he wants the Coyotes to go, this has become another example of the Us v. Them, Canada v. U.S. battleground we've seen for years when it comes to troubled sun belt teams.

For a little perspective on how big of a deal this is in my corner of the world: This has become the No. 1 story in Canada — and specifically in the Toronto market — and has been on the front page of the paper I work for the past two days. It's also been the lead story on sports radio and television almost nonstop since the bankruptcy was announced at 7 p.m. on Tuesday night, and, as you can see on my site, it's essentially trumped a ton of coverage of the NHL playoffs.

This is, quite literally, the top topic of conversation in the entire country.

Phoenix is far from the worst hockey market in the NHL. It's an enormous city, with many transplants from hockey-loving states (and countries) and under ideal circumstances, yes, a team could and should work there. Perhaps not thrive — or turn a profit — but survive.

Of course, these are far from ideal circumstances.

The NHL has too many teams, and it's what I would call a top-heavy league — where the haves have oh so much and the have nots have next to nothing. The average top 10 money-making club generates nearly double what those in the bottom 10 do in revenue each season, and as such, those on the low end — even with revenue sharing — will have difficulty competing. And, because of all the factors mentioned previously, Phoenix is currently the lowest of the low and Jerry Moyes has lost a personal fortune (including about $70-million in the past three years).

The sad fact of the matter is that the majority of the NHL has grown far, far beyond charging $9 to $20 per game for an upper bowl season ticket and yet that's what ownership in Phoenix has to get by on. The league's mid-revenue clubs at this point are the likes of the Penguins and Sharks, teams that either have the benefit of a long-standing tradition in their market or incredible success on the ice (or both).

A good season ticket in the upper bowl in San Jose will run you $46 a game. In Pittsburgh, it's closer to $65.

And even those teams are relying on playoff revenues to get them out of the hole.

The economics don't work, and that's not just the situation in Phoenix. The league over-expanded, moving into too many new markets too quickly, and with the current recession, several are going to experience some serious financial distress.

The major casualties, if teams do relocate, will be the fans.

2748789450_3a5e4b2d1c_medium

I personally have a ton of respect for anyone who has come to the game and fallen in love with hockey, wherever they're from. One of great things with working at SB Nation and bringing bloggers from all 30 teams together is that I've gotten to know some great fans in every market — including Travis, our Coyotes blogger (who is setting up savethecoyotes.com as we speak) — and regardless of how many tickets their home team sells, there's a common bond.

In my mind, it's far more difficult to be a passionate hockey fan in Arizona, Tennessee or Florida than where I grew up, where everyone I knew lived and breathed the game and simply picked it up as a matter of course. And the fact is that "the game" will never turn those fans away, even if the NHL and its over-inflated prices do.

So, there are good hockey fans in Phoenix. There just may not be enough — especially given the ones that are there have simply been given too little to cheer for for the franchise's entire existence. Soon there may be nothing to cheer at all.

It's professional sport, it's big business and, given Gary Bettman's strategy for growth, markets will fail and move on under difficult circumstances.

It's just too bad that means leaving hockey fans behind.

Nhl-revenues_medium

0 recs | Comment 103 comments | Add comment | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I personally have a ton of respect for anyone who has come to the game and fallen in love with hockey, wherever they’re from.

A fine sentiment, sir, but it would be willful blindness to ignore the fact that many, many of our countrymen do not hold that respect for our fellow hockey fans in the south. They do not. All you have to do is read HF Boards for an hour or two. Some “fans” are downright vitriolic, and it is not just “a few”. I also hear it from some of my friends, too.

These types of “fans” remain convinced that, because they in the south are just becoming fans, they are lesser fans or not even “real fans” at all. They use code words like “not a real hockey town” and similar blather. My god, they don’t sell out EVERY Game?? Shock!! Shock and dismay!!! Incredulous look!!!

It is a nasty little streak that Canadian hockey fandom has been suffering from for years now.

by Gerald on May 7, 2009 6:56 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I hate the word “bandwagoner” or telling people they’re not “real fans”.

Unless you were born into hockey (Canada, Great Lakes, Northeast), odds are at some point you’re going to either start to enjoy your hometown team or randomly latch on with a team. That’s technically bandwagoning. But is there anything wrong with that? You’re not allowed to love the game if you’re not from a hockey hotbed? EVERYONE is a bandwagoner at some point. You have to start somewhere.

Tell my wife, who was raised in Raleigh, started following the Canes during the ‘02 Finals run and has been a diehard Canes fan ever since, that she’s not a real fan. She knows more about hockey than most people in my area (Western New York) do.

Shut up when you're talking to me!

by Afino on May 7, 2009 7:06 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is certainly no arguing the fact that some – even many Canadian hockey fans have expressed such opinions. To question others’ degree of fandom is sometimes the result of an inability or unwillingness to empathize with fans of struggling franchises.

There can be no defense of the worst of these perpetrators.

There does, however, exist a significant portion of these Canadian fans who are understandably passionate about the subject. From the Winnipeg (and Quebec) fans who are summarily dismissed by fans in Phoenix (or Denver) for not having supported their teams – a position that I find ironic and hypocritical – to the fans who have witnessed the recent relocations of their local baseball teams in the five largest markets in the country (outside of Toronto), there is certainly ample evidence to suggest that arguing against the viability of our national pastime in non-traditional markets is warranted.

Personally, I could never wish ill upon another fanbase for the failings of their team’s ownership or management, but I can certainly understand it.

Just as a Winnipegger who is told that he deserved to lose the Jets because of whatever reason – lack of fan support, lack of community business support, etc – no hockey fan in Phoenix should be subjected to vitriolic ramblings that aren’t grounded in facts. These people are true fans and to imply otherwise is unaccpetable.

For that very reason, I have chosen to not put the word fan in quotes, even when referring to the most ignorant among us.

I have as much sympathy for Yotes fans right now, as I had for the fanbases of the Nords, Jets, Grizzlies, Expos, Lynx, Cannons, Trappers and Vancouver Candians professional teams. Can you honestly say that the majority of Americans feel or felt the same?

If this nasty streak has been suffered by Canadian hockey fandom for years, is it at least possible that it is rooted in the history of having lost eight pro teams to unsympathetic American markets – one every year, for the preceding decade?

Try to save a little of your own sympathy for those who have long suffered from the stigma of not being a real baseball town, and now find it hard be eloquent in their argument that perhaps Hamilton would be a better hockey market than a huge city like Phoenix.

I know that I sometimes find it hard to believe that a metropolis such as Allentown, PA makes for a better market than our national capital, and that the Phillies showed no sympathy when yanking the last pro baseball team from the country (Jays, aside) for questionable economic reasons.

Perhaps a portion of those who you berate have been unable or unwilling to mask their sense of excitement and relief, not unlike the reaction of a segment of the population, upon hearing the verdict in the O.J. case. Those people weren’t pro-murder or anti-Nicole; simply people letting out a sigh of relief at finally having one go in their favour.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 8:21 AM CDT up reply actions 1 recs

I have to say that i am sick to death of people trotting out the word “passionate”. Winnipeg fans are passionate. JB is a passionate hockey fan. Player A jsut tomahawked someone, but he is juse playing with passion.

Here is a “passionate” bulletin: “passion” is not an excuse for being hurtful to and ignorant of the considerations of others. It is not an excuse for declining to own one’s behaviour. It is not to be “understood”, in the sense of letting the person off the hook.

As an aside, the only times i have ever seen ’Peg fans taken to task for non-support is in response to a vicious attack by “passionate” Canadian hockey fans questioning the fandom of others.

by Gerald on May 7, 2009 12:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A very passionate response to what I thought was a very objective opinion that clearly disqualified those who would viciously attack.

Sorry to trot out the word.

You are the one who questioned the fandom of others by wrapping the word fan in quotes. Are they not fans, simply because you find them to be too passionate?

I am not sick to death of your point of view, so please don’t treat mine like it has swine flu.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My apologies. you are simply in the way of an expression of frustration and dismay over the bad behaviour of my countrymen. If everyone felt as you do, I would not be dismayed.

by Gerald on May 7, 2009 12:23 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If everyone felt the way you did, this issue wouldn’t have become an us vs. them.

It’s tragic that one fanbase has to suffer so that another can benefit, and even more so that our international game (Harvard vs McGill is the real birth of the sport) has to be treated so proprietarily (is that a word?)

I agree with you, after all that though, that the word passionate is very ambiguous (almost code for hateful).

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes but everyone doesn’t feel the same. that’s why we’re all different people. And no one needs to be attacked/put down/sneered at because of their opinions on a blog.

by yrmom on May 7, 2009 3:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gerald has that effect on people.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 4:48 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Huh?

Are blogs “safe zones” where people can be as meanspirited as they want and not be held accountable because it is just an opinion on a blog?

You’re right. We are all different people. Some of us don’t look down on people – or an entire community – just becuse they live in the southern US and didn’t grow up with a hockey stick in their hands.

by Gerald on May 7, 2009 4:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry Gerald but I wonder if you ever read your own comments.I rarely agree with you and it’s not because I look down on the residents of the southern US but I really appreciate your viewpoint-it often causes me to rethink my positions-but your tone and your disrespect for anyone who disagrees really put me off.
And while you’re right that blogs aren’t safe zones, they’re not court or research papers either and people should be able to post without constantly being responded too like they’re idiots.

by yrmom on May 7, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truth is

I just got back from the doctor, and my opinions were diagnosed with H1N1.

I just don’t understand……I used protection.

;-)

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 5:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are welcome to your opinion. If you think that railing against people who treat others llike second-class citizens is somehow treating those people with disrespect, that is your right.

i will even clear it up for you. For those people who react with schadenfreude to Phoenix fans losing their team, and mock them as “not a hockey town” or somehow lesser fans because they are not Canadian and live where there is no ice, then yeah, i have ZERO respect for that attitude.

I am quite comfortable with that position.

by Gerald on May 7, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Amazing graph...

How far up there are the Leafs? Amazing. They’d probably still be up there with a team in Hamilton. The Sabres, on the other hand…

And when you say top heavy, James, I think you over-reach when talking about 10 team. Really, it’s the Leafs, Habs & Rangers and then a long plateau. How many of those teams are actually paying for revenue sharing?

by Olivier on May 7, 2009 8:08 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Ten teams pay into revenue sharing.

Teams like Vancouver, Dallas and Philadelphia may look like they’re on a plateau, but they’re generating double the dollars of the bottom feeders. That’s what I’m talking about.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 10:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never would have expected Dallas that high

Damn that’s impressive. Although I assume that number will be much smaller this season for missing the playoffs. That’s what a run to the WCF can do for a bottom line.

by Hull Fan on May 7, 2009 6:57 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely. Playoff revenues are a major factor (although some go into the revenue sharing pool).

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, an amazing graph indeed.

Where are these estimated numbers from? This is Gold.

Are these average numbers over a few years, or last season’s numbers? How are playoff revenues incorporated into the graph (are they?)? What is the Canadian Dollar converted at if these are projections?

Notes:

3 of the top 5 (TOR/MTL/VAN) and 5 of the top 11 (CGY/OTT) are Canadian Franchises. All Canadian Teams are in the top 18 (EDM)
The bottom 8 include: 4 Bettman Expansion Teams (FLA/ATL/NSH/CBS), + PHO (relocation from WPG) + NYI (need a building) and STL (trending up) and WSH (trending up)
Original 6 Markets are 1, 2, 3, 4 (WOW!) + 8 (BOS) & 20 (CHI trending up in a big way!)
Other Expansion Markets are: MIN (12), SJ (17), ANA (15), TBY (19)

The Numbers don’t exactly make Bettman look like a genius. Not to mention the lack of a US National TV deal that seemed to be his Holy Grail or a full season missed due to labour (or labor for you American folks) strife.

What exactly are Gary Bettman’s successes? Why are NHL Owners going to bat for him??

"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ

by jealous broadcaster on May 8, 2009 7:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Guilty

I have to admit to having some animus towards the Southern teams that relocated from places where hockey is a traditional sport: the Coyotes and Stars. I’m from Michigan but I was living in Texas in 1993 when the North Stars were moved to Dallas by then-owner Norman Green. I was appalled.

As James has documented, Minnesota has long produced more NHL players than any other State. The State high school hockey tournament is about as important an event as the State basketball tournament is in Indiana — it’s huge. I thought of all those broken-hearted kids with Mike Modano posters on their walls when the team moved to Texas, and it pissed me off. A year or two later I attended a Stars-Red Wings game at Reunion Arena in Dallas and it only made me more aggravated. In contrast to the knowledgeable crowd at Joe Louis Arena, the people around me didn’t know crap about hockey. Most seemed to have come only to see a fight. “Hockey-mad Minnesota lost their team to these yahoos?”, I thought.

I understand that North Texas has come along way since then. That hockey has taken root and youth hockey teams have flourished. That’s great. But they should have gotten an NHL team honestly, through expansion, and not stealing one from the more deserving, and clearly viable, Minnesota market.

The other day Bettman said, “We fix the problems. We don’t run out on cities.” He wasn’t saying that in 1993. He didn’t say that in 1996 when Winnipeg Jets moved to Phoenix. Apparently that doesn’t apply when we’re talking about moving a Northern team in search of Sunbelt dollars.

No, the fans in Phoenix did not have a hand in moving the Jets, but it’s fitting that the Coyotes failure causes great grief for the Commissioner who did. I cannot help but feel that the Coyotes moving back to Canada would be some karmic payback.

I think part of the animus that we fans from traditional hockey markets feel toward Southern teams is that we feel that the NHL has neglected and abused us and our game in an attempt to woo new Southern fans. Moving teams South is only part of it. We’ve had to put up with glow pucks and “ice girls”, losing players to expansion drafts, the trap, the shootout and the loser-point. It’s all of a piece. And we’re pissed!

So screw Gary Bettman and his precious Southern fans. I feel great schadenfreude watching it all blow up in his smarmy pampered face.

by voline on May 7, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I think part of the animus that we fans from traditional hockey markets feel toward Southern teams is that we feel that the NHL has neglected and abused us and our game in an attempt to woo new Southern fans. Moving teams South is only part of it. We’ve had to put up with glow pucks and "ice girls", losing players to expansion drafts, the trap, the shootout and the loser-point. It’s all of a piece. And we’re pissed!

That’s so far off base I don’t even know where to start.

Shut up when you're talking to me!

by Afino on May 7, 2009 8:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know where to start – at the beginning.

Bettman was elected by the BoG with a mandate to expand into the South. The vote was unanimous, meaning that Quebec and Winnipeg supported this long-term plan for growth.

The instability that arose was perhaps unavoidable, but it should be noted that even the evil Bettman did everything in his power to help with the Canadian Assitance Plan of 99-01.

It is quit conceivable that, just like AAA baseball in Canada, we could have lost the Sens, Flames and Oilers during that period, so I am reluctant to paint the League as having a double-standard, now.

As for Ice Girls….the problem is what, exactly?

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 8:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It should be noted that Bettman’s expected to lead a great deal of the board, too. Many of those in ownership are swayed by his advice, so you can’t simply absolve him of blame (especially when you then credit him for saving the Canadian franchises).

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 10:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ice girls?

You mean like in Calgary? Where beautiful women in tight outfits skate around with shovels to clean the ice?

Or do you mean like in San Jose where a bunch of fat old mulletted rink rats in hockey jackets slide around on their shoes to clean up the snow?

Which one is “traditional”?

by Hawerchuk on May 7, 2009 8:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think the Sharks even have “ice girls”. I always remember the folks scooping up the ice as overweight, bored men.

I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"

by Nael M. on May 7, 2009 8:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Heh, I think that’s what Gabe’s referring to.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 10:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops. When I read “rink rats”, my mind mixed it up with the pro wrestling idea of “ring rats”, or groupies.

Five years after I stopped regularly watching and I still can’t get it out of my mind…

I has good practice. Mike Grier keep shooting puck at me, and my confidence boosted very more. - "Evgeni Nabokov"

by Nael M. on May 7, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

But they should have gotten an NHL team honestly, through expansion, and not stealing one from the more deserving, and clearly viable, Minnesota market.

The thing that irks me the most about this debate is the use of words like ‘stealing’, ‘honestly’, and ‘deserving’.
The Dallas Stars fans did not steal anything. The owners of a team based in Minnesota decided to move it to another part of the country, and new fans adopted it (and it’s the same for Carolina, Denver and Phoenix). I completely understand how people in Minnesota feel that something has been ‘stolen’ from them, but the Dallas fans are not guilty of anything. It’s not more honorable or honest for the fans to get a franchise via expansion than via relocation, because they have have no control watsoever on how it happens. So there’s no reason to speak of karma and schadenfreude when those same fans go through the same pains than you did a few years before.

http://softeuropean.wordpress.com

by Grrrreg on May 7, 2009 8:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree. Then again, unlike a lot of people, I don’t have a problem with moving teams around.* It’s business. That’s what happens. While it isn’t clear that the Coyotes meet the legal definition of being bankrupt, it is certainly the case that they simply are not financially viable in their current situation. Something must give. It isn’t healthy to have teams stuck on life support in perpetuity.

*One of the rare exceptions is the Expos. That wasn’t a case of a franchise becoming unviable where they are. It was a case of MLB deliberately killing a franchise. May Jeff Loria and Beelzebud rot in hell.

by J. Michael Neal on May 7, 2009 9:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Clearly Viable?

The NorthStars were drawing less than 9,000 avg the year before they relocated, one of the worst averages for any team in the last 30 years. After they moved to Dallas their attendance and revenue skyrocketed. Read old stories about their struggles in the late 80’s – early 90’s before the move and you might have a different outlook.

by DanNOLA on May 7, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There were a lot of strange things that went on around here in the last couple of years the North Stars were in town. There was a lot more to it than attendance figures, including the sexual harrassment suit that Norm Green faced. What happened happened, and it’s all good now, but that was a really weird case.

by J. Michael Neal on May 7, 2009 9:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, clearly viable. Haven’t the Minnesota Wild sold out every home game in their history? And in James’s graph above the Wild are currently 12th in estimated revenues. I think that proves that it wasn’t the market in Minnesota that was the problem with the North Stars.

by voline on May 7, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ice girls

I think ice girls are cheesy — wherever they are used. Whether in a new or old market it’s a new practice.

I’m also guilty of giving Bettman too much credit or blame. He clearly serves at the pleasure of the owners who should get as much or more of the blame for both moving out of traditional markets and some of the new practices that I see as bastardizations.

That includes the Illitches, whom we Wings fans normally worship.

by voline on May 7, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Cheesy? meh

Bastardization? they don’t even purport to lead any cheers, so yeah

Demeaning? prolly

Ogling them, rather than a fat guy? priceless

Maybe they should only be used as corporate tie-ins, to give them legitimacy. Picture Wings girls dressed like Romans, with pizza-box shaped shovels….

p.s. I’m not sure any jury would find anyone guilty of assigning Bettman too much blame, so save yourself some $ and get a legal aid lawyer for your impending proceedings ;-)

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it’s pretty easy for a lot of people to lose perspective when dealing with anything they’re passionate about. Throw in the internet and things are bound to get ugly. It’s the same in the comment sections of political articles-anonymity and instant posting can lead to a lot of hostile posts.
I like James’ post here because he’s pointing out that there are a lot of innocent parties here, with real feelings and real passion for the game , who are facing the loss of a team that they love. No matter where we stand on the situation we’d all be better off if we tried to keep that in mind. Since I started writing this Grrrreg’s comment has arrived and he’s right, it’s not the fans fault.
On a related not I find that here and on other blogs I really appreciate the posts/comments that try to debate posts calmly. There’s nothing wrong with a little emotion but some commenters could really cut down on the snark, particularly those who consistently belittle the intelligence/expertise of anyone who disagrees with them.

by yrmom on May 7, 2009 9:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Living near Toronto, it’s unreal the amount of attention this story is getting. Even friends of mine who are Leafs fans seem to be drinking the Kool-Aid that S.O. needs another franchise.

I am so sympathetic to the Coyotes fans, who are being dragged through the mud in all of this. Unfortunately it seems like a perfect storm of circumstances that will almost surely lead to the relocation of the franchise (wherever that may be; I have a feeling Bettman was arranging things for a relocation to Las Vegas).

Best of luck to the ’Yotes and their unwavering fan base, this is one Canadian as sick of the whole ordeal as you are.

by Jo4nny on May 7, 2009 9:19 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I don’t know that it’s drinking the kool-aid that SWO could support another franchise. I think that the business case for it is probably as solid as possible. I disagree with Balsillie’s approach to getting a team there. He’d probably have a team if he didn’t do things in such a confrontational manner.

I think that these ‘southern’ markets need to have the league committed to at least a generation of stability in order to have the grassroots of the game developed. It would be nice if the league could find some competent owners as well…

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 7, 2009 9:48 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think a plan like that could work on a smaller scale. They just expanded to too many unproven markets too quickly, and didn’t find reliable ownership in a lot of the new posts. A recipe for disaster.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 11:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

exactly

They had an idea of the expansion that they wanted and took whoever would help them achieve that in the short-term.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 7, 2009 11:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

@ James

Does the graph depict striclty HRR, as was estimated a year ago, thus forming the basis for this year’s 56.7M cap?

I’m sure you’ve read recent projections of a 5% increase for the current year, meaning the ceiling could jump to almost $60M.

Besides the numerical analysis that I’d love to see you produce, I’d be very interested in your take on the ridiculous “non-proportional” floor-to-ceiling ratio that another rise would result in.

If Phoenix is forced to pony up $43M for next year’s squad, then who gets the fat Legwand-esque deal to meet such an arbitrary minimum?

In 2005, a rebuilding franchise was allowed to spend 54% as much as a Philly or Jersey, whereas this year’s Preds had to shell out 70% as much.

If next year’s Yotes need to come up with 72% of Illitch’s payroll (or $43M), do they go after J-Bo and Jagr, or Lecavalier and Briere? It’s fuggin’ insanity.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 9:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

You can’t have a salary cap without a floor. The union, justifiably, would never go along with that. I’ve said all along that a cap is a stupid, stupid thing to have. The majority of the fans seem to disagree with me, though. So, they really need to stop complaining about the floor. If you don’t like it, there’s an easy way to get rid of it; I’m sure that the NHLPA would be perfectly happy to kill the cap.

by J. Michael Neal on May 7, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

"The majority of the fans seem to disagree with me, though"

So does that graph that James posted.

Shut up when you're talking to me!

by Afino on May 7, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How so? Point me to any evidence that a salary cap leads to anything that benefits the fans. Don’t look at the NBA; it hasn’t helped there. Don’t look at the NFL, because, despite popular perception, it hasn’t helped there. It’s still a short period of time, but it doesn’t look like it’s made much of a difference in the NHL.

Why are you wedded to the idea?

by J. Michael Neal on May 7, 2009 12:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m not sure how you prove something’s better for the fans. Those in small markets like Nashville are certainly better off.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

How?

by J. Michael Neal on May 8, 2009 10:31 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’ve heard your argument on this subject before and am not convinced. But you’re welcome to make it in the sidebars.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 8, 2009 1:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If I’m going to do that, and I might, I’m going to wait until I reconstruct the spreadsheet with all of my data.

by J. Michael Neal on May 8, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

A floor is indeed mandatory.

I just question the ideology that went into making it $17M less than the ceiling, rather than keeping the 2005 level of 54% of the ceiling.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Because the union, justifiably, would never agree to it. If you are going to artificially keep the top end of salaries low, you can’t then argue that the bottom end should fall to a level that doesn’t force teams to spend more than they might want. Pick one or the other; you don’t get both.

by J. Michael Neal on May 7, 2009 12:32 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t pick both.

The CBA stipulated that no team could spend more than $37M and no team could spend less than $20M.

If the term of the contract had been for a hundred years, without retaining a proportionate differential between the floor and ceiling, it is conceivable that the 2105 ceiling would be $37 billion, with a floor of $36.983 billion.

The higher the ceiling goes, the smaller the spread becomes, using the current linear relationship.

Do you even understand what I’m getting at?

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, I do.

by J. Michael Neal on May 8, 2009 10:32 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

We’re already paying Jovanovski! Friggin albatross…

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by OdinMercer on May 7, 2009 9:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Upon further review

There is no need to chase after another forward, but with Kalinin’s and Klee’s expiring contracts, maybe J-Bo is a viable target.

A rough calculation (dayyyum you guys have a lot of RFAs) puts the Yotes 2 defencemen and as much as 5-6 million short for next year, though that counts only minimla raises for returning Group 2’s.

Legwand got a hefty raise, so maybe Maloney picks a few of his guys to reward richly, rather than going the UFA route. Or re-sign Klee and call up a rookie blueliner.

The sitaution isn’t as odd as I first thought, when I surmised that they NEEDED to spend large to meet the increasingly unfair floor.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 10:09 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

In theory that might work but who is going to sign with a team in Phoenix’s situation?

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on May 7, 2009 11:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No one yet. The other reason that June 30th date is so very important.

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by OdinMercer on May 7, 2009 11:27 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Someone who only

Has Montreal or Edmonton as the other options? :)

by Exit716 on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It sucks for a fan to have his team’s future be uncertain. But I still gotta think it’s better for the fan to know his team’s future is uncertain.

The Coyotes were screwed anyway. At least now it’s out in the open.

by RyanV on May 7, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I’m not even going to justify some of these comments with a response.

I did however want to note that Falconer’s piece which does a decent job of explaining how Ellman’s real estate deals regarding the Yotes and Westgate made the mess much worse, but it does not explain all the reasons for the franchise’s current state. And the whole there is nothing to do around the arena thing is outdated. Ellman finally built up Westgate, late of course, but there are eating options right next door and have been for several years.

by CP2Devil on May 7, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Message from a Coyote fan

First, a quick shout-out to Mr. Mirtle for at least acknowledging that we Coyotes fans exist. From some of the rhetoric I hear around “teh Intarweb” in Canada, people seem to mistake us for gophers lost in a sand dune.

I want to tell my story so some of you Canadians can understand why I’m not in love with the idea of the Coyotes moving to Hamilton. Prior to the NHL lockout, I did not follow hockey. At all. I knew who the Red Wings were because they won Stanley Cups and I knew who Wayne Gretzky was from his appearance on Saturday Night Live. I even knew Steve Yzerman’s name because a friend of mine was a big fan. But I knew nothing else about the sport except that the players used pucks and at one point didn’t wear helmets. Oh, and Jason from Friday the 13th wore a goalie mask.

I saw my first NHL game in Boston when I was working out there. Turns out it was Joe Thornton’s first game. I enjoyed myself but didn’t go back – hockey hadn’t hooked me at that point. My second NHL game was years later on opening day in Glendale after I had moved back to the Valley. I was amazed at how nice the new arena was – US Airways Center is a horrible sinkhole of an arena for basketball – I have no idea how the Coyotes sold a single ticket for a hockey game there. What amazed me more was the pace and speed of the post-lockout game. I didn’t have the background of the slower, rougher NHL, which I think was a big reason why I got hooked – the way these guys were flying across the ice was such a visceral thrill that I couldn’t believe I hadn’t gotten hooked before.

I ended up buying season tickets the next year… and I have bought them every year since. I had a lot to learn about the game – I didn’t know what icing was, what the various penalties were… had you mentioned a 1-2-2 defense I’d have been totally lost. Fortunately, I ended up downloading the Eastside Hockey Manager game and I went from wondering what forechecking was to debating the ins and outs of the salary cap and two-way contracts and the value of line-matching.

In short, since the lockout I’ve made the transition from a total neophyte to totally obsessed with the greatest pro sport in the world. I can’t watch basketball at all anymore because I can’t imagine guys getting paid ten times what Alex Ovechkin makes for doing barely an eighth of the work. I took my daughter (I have four, and I’ve been working nonstop to convert them into hockey fans) to an Arizona Cardinals game and we had to leave after the first quarter because she got so bored with the “slow pace and incessant play stoppages” (her words, not mine).

More importantly, like I said before I am an annual STH. I patronize Coyotes’ sponsors even though they’re usually not the best in their field. I collect McFarlane figures and sweaters (hell, I call jerseys “sweaters”). I support my local youth hockey programs. I encourage friends and neighbors to go to games and get involved in ice hockey.

In short, I’m essentially the guy Gary Bettman would love to put into a PowerPoint presentation on why the NHL bothered to put franchises anywhere but Canada and the northern US.

Now that you know my story, I’ll explain why I feel like I have more reason to be upset than, say, Winnipeggers were when the Jets left. Keep in mind, I hate the idea of ANY franchise moving because I know how that decimates the fans. But in fairness, Winnipeggers have had hockey around them for over a century. I’ve only had it for about five years. Just as I got hooked on this awesome sport, I’m having it torn away from me in the most abrupt and remorseless way possible.

If that weren’t enough, I have to deal with Canadians laughing at me simply for having the bad luck to live in a desert… I have to put up with GTA residents with an overdeveloped sense of entitlement telling me I haven’t “earned the privilege” of having an NHL team in my city… I’ve had people tell me that I cannot possibly appreciate hockey on their level because, well, I don’t have “the birthright.” The people who treat me this way don’t give a flying fig for me or my efforts to grow THEIR game in my city, because for all the lip service they give to hockey being the greatest game in the world, they don’t give a crap about GROWING the game – only about KEEPING it. How else does one justify the idea that the World Juniors should remain in Canada in perpetuity?

Ripping hockey out of the desert may seem like the right idea for the GTA, Jim Balsillie, and other Canadian hawks… but in my mind it’s burning a bridge. Taking the franchise by force out of this market will absolutely kill the sport in Arizona. It will feed every ignorant, football-obsessed moron that says that hockey is stupid and a niche sport at best. And it will tear the hearts out of people like me, whose nascent fandom will receive a major beating without the long history and decades of local hockey to fall back on.

Take this for what it’s worth.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 11:45 AM CDT reply actions 4 recs

burning a bridge

that’s some good stuff to chew on, considering how many people live in Phoenix and are potential fans…

by Karina on May 7, 2009 12:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rec’d

by snowburnt on May 7, 2009 3:08 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think this post goes hand in hand with much of what James was saying in his Nashville portrait earlier this year. The development of a fanbase and a youth hockey movement is a long-term project. It takes time for kids to start playing, it takes time to get more rinks in the area, it takes time for fans to find and enjoy the game if you’re not born into it.

I’m pretty sure that Phoenix is viable in the long run, a key question is the flip-side: Who can and is willing to pay for the short run. You need someone like Mark Cuban, who understands the business, and there aren’t a lot of those people around.

by rsm on May 7, 2009 7:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Coyotes also need a much more favourable lease agreement in the arena to cut down on losses, something the Predators have ended up with as a way to keep the team in town.

I imagine it’s coming in Phoenix.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 7:44 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with this is that it’s a statement that the team can’t be profitable without a large subsidy from the local taxpayers. At which point, why shouldn’t Glendale get to own the team and make the profit?

by J. Michael Neal on May 8, 2009 10:34 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

It’s a given this team can’t be profitable without a large subsidy. Even with one, and an arena built by the city, it hasn’t been profitable at all.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 8, 2009 1:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

$49.50 a month is cheaper than Saskatoon Blades season tickets.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on May 7, 2009 11:53 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

An example of what irks some Canadian fans

I was lucky enough to attend one Habs game last fall. I paid almost $49.50 per period.

It makes me wonder what portion of that revenue was siphoned off to pay Jovanovski’s salary, given that he isn’t being paid by those who can easily subscribe to Yotes season tickets.

It’s probably only a dollar or two, but it sure would be nice to have the opportunity to attend more than a game a year.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:26 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

An example of what irks me...

“Easily subscribe to Yotes season tickets”?

I don’t call five figures a year in ticket costs “easy.” But then, I don’t have my tickets in the top nosebleed row.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 12:47 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The pic above

advertises $49.50 a month…..

are you saying that the fine print involves paying that amount for hundreds of months?

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever the details

I’m sure you can understand how I would be jealous of the chance to not only find tickets to, say, a Leafs game, but to get standing room tix for under $200.

That’s what the ire in some might boil down to – jealousy.

When the Bills play their games in Toronto, we aren’t offered such attractive prices either, so there’s a bit of a (market-driven) double-standard there. Insomuch as supply and demand can be twisted into what I just called a double standard.

AZ is football-mad, but then again, who isn’t?

A better example would have been how much it cost me to go to Expos games. It was surely cheaper than Yankees tix, but not less than Florida or AZ, which seem to like their baseball. When the New York based commish (whose $18M salary rivaled the entire Expos payroll) decided that there was more demand in D.C., the free market dictated that the Expos had to leave town.

So take whatever I say with several grains of salt, as I’m obviously just jealous to be paying far more than $49.50 a month. If you are paying 5-figures, while the people in the upper bowl are paying as low as $300-400 maybe you could join me over here in Envyland.

Keep up the good fight, Yotes fans.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 1:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The 49$ is your payment per seat for 8 months. That’s only for the cheapest of the cheap seats. The last 4 rows in the end bowl sections. Basically you can get 2 seats for the year for 800$

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by OdinMercer on May 7, 2009 1:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Soooo...

how do I get me one o dem Green Cards?

;-)

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 1:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Truthfully, seeing a game in the nosebleeds is a blast. At least it is in Montreal (Molson Ex Zone, it’s called). I can guarantee that if the remote possibility of owning a pair of season tickets in the last row of the Bell Centre for 800$ per year existed, I would be among the first to sign up.

by Habs on May 7, 2009 5:49 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That’s where I sat last year. They’re not bad at all. But we got tickets from friends for other seats sometimes and now it’s just not the same ;)

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by OdinMercer on May 7, 2009 5:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You’re in the upper bowl though, right Travis?

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 7:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To clarify...

I’m not complaining about the cost of a Coyotes season ticket. I understand we have some of the lowest ticket costs in the league. In fact, Coyotes season tickets are the best value for pro sports in the city, if not the nation. The low price is also a likely reason why the team is in financial trouble, considering that they do not charge a parking surcharge per ticket either.

Personally, I wouldn’t mind if they added a parking surcharge to my tickets if it would improve the team’s bottom line.

I also understand your jealousy. But please understand that your jealousy would pale greatly in comparison to the hatred of NHL hockey that would spring up in the vacuum left by a Coyotes departure. Please note, I’m not saying a hatred of hockey as a sport – but a hatred of the NHL, along with an enormous grudge against the elitists and the entitled up north who care nothing about us or the idea of growing the sport.

The idea that the growth of the League has to be supported by growing the SPORT in places where it is not a traditional sport is a sound one if it’s undertaken properly. I come to the issue retroactively, but I’m not a fan of how Gary Bettman reorganized the league. He tried to make over the NHL in an NFL/NBA mold, and that was wrong. The Nordiques and the Jets should never have been moved out of Canada. HAVING SAID THAT – markets like Phoenix could have been built into NHL-ready cities with the proper development. Say, for instance, getting an AHL franchise and support from the league to build local hockey programs and create a grassroots appreciation for the sport. Then down the road, an EXPANSION (not MOVED) franchise. Managed, long-term growth would have worked, IMO, a lot better than Bettman’s chess game.

What I’m afraid of is that if the NHL leaves Phoenix, it will never come back, arena or no. A lot of that has to do with the misunderstanding of WHY the Coyotes are failing – many Canadians say it’s cultural, when in fact it’s financial mismanagement, nearly criminal general management (Brett Hull? Petr Nedved? Really?) and poor performance. It’s like saying a tree won’t grow because it died when it was planted – not mentioning that instead of daily water, the tree got fed Coca-Cola on an irregular schedule every two or three weeks.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 2:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

No clarification needed

I didn’t mean to imply anything other than I’d hate to see $400 season tix, if you were paying 5-figures. I bought season tix for the CFL at face value, only to see prices get slashed for the fans who weren’t willing to commit to every game. There were people sitting only ten rows behind me for a fraction of my cost, by the end of the year.

There are many markets with similar price structures to Phoenix and that is a simple supply and demand function. I’m still jealous, though. Just like I’m jealous of the housing costs in Newfoundland and the price of oil in Venezuela.

Here in Ottawa, you might be jealous to note, I have many options to see high quality hockey. That, more than restrictive pricing, keeps me from attending more NHL games. I saw Tavares play three times in January alone. I saw Angelo Esposito last fall.

To all you Canadian hockey fans, there is no better place for junior hockey, in that we have two-thirds of the CHL visit our two buildings. The World Juniors was gravy, but compared to fans in AZ, we all have more opportunities to watch live hockey.

Haven’t seen an NFL game since the 1-15 Pats, and have no Div-1 football nearby, but for us to advocate stripping Phoenix fans of their hockey team is pretty greedy.

I’m starting a new campaign to have Carlton University admitted to Div-1 hoops and you are welcome to sign up at http://www.makeitatleastone.ca and would appreciate as uch support as Ball Silly got in his first 24 hours. Since Naismith invented the game, it doesn’t belong in such non-traditional places as North Carolina. They can’t even sell 50,000 tix for their games.

;-)

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 2:36 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I’m really tired of Gary Buttman and his fake ideals. Being from Quebec City, we lost our Nordiques without him raising a pinky and now he wants to do everything possible to keep a moribond team in a golf and NASCAR market where they are bleeding money and have problems attracting 12,000 fans in a brand new arena. Get over it Buttman and let Balsillie save this team financially. Another strong Canadien team is much better than a crumbling American team in a poor hockey market! I don’t mind having hockey teams in the south, in cities like Anaheim, San Jose, Dallas where there is a strong fan base and a passion for hockey, but places like Atlanta and Florida doesn’t deserve hockey teams! It sucks for the true Coyotes fan, but your city officials dropped the ball by building the arena one hour away from downtown!

by Fred Poulin on May 7, 2009 12:23 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

What have Atlanta and Florida done not to deserve hockey teams? Atlanta’s ownership has been a mess from the word go, and the on-ice product reflects it, while Florida was perfectly “passionate” back when they had something to cheer for. Remember the rats?

In nearly every case of a struggling franchise, it’s not a problem with the market; it’s a problem with the team.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on May 7, 2009 12:52 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You are operating under several misconceptions.

First, the arena is not “one hour away from downtown.” It is a 15-minute drive in clear traffic and it’s all highway – no back roads. You need to get it out of your head that Jobing.com Arena is out among the Pyramids or something, because it’s just not true.

Second, Anaheim and Dallas didn’t have strong fan bases or passion for hockey UNTIL THEIR TEAMS STARTED WINNING CUPS. The markets developed into strong and passionate fan bases over time, and the liberal dose of success didn’t hurt at all.

Phoenix has proven that it can be a good market for literally ANYTHING… if it’s successful. Put in a failing franchise, and it doesn’t matter if it’s NHL, NBA, MLB, or NFL – it’s not going to prosper.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 2:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

That arena was seriously jumpin’ for the Arizona Sting when they were playing for the NLL title. Funny, that.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on May 7, 2009 4:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is no way you can convince me that Quebec City is a better hockey market than Phoenix. Quebec’s metro population is 715 000 while Phoenix’s metro population is 4 280 000. In fact, no one can convince me that hockey in Phoenix cannot work.

As was stated by other people, plenty of southern markets are viable, each and every one of them because the team is successful, and mostly because they are well managed. If you get a real serious owner in Phoenix, and the financials are reworked with the arena lease, I’m pretty sure this can work.

I’m as sad as anyone that the Nords left, and I’m as much as anyone in favor of a team returning to Quebec City. But saying that Phoenix (or Atlanta, or Sunrise) don’t deserve a hockey franchise? Makes no sense.

by Habs on May 7, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Great Post James

Many people have trouble seeing both side on this, but I think you captured the situation quite well.

The NFL and NBA reduce their revenue disparity problem with their huge TV contracts, which rival ticket income—not true for the NHL. A fundamental resolution to this would be some split of gate receipts in which the visiting team gets 1/3 and the home team gets 2/3. This change would do more than anything else to induce long term stability but it would cost the top 10 teams their profit margins.

by The Falconer on May 7, 2009 12:28 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Excellent idea

Visiting players already pay certain taxes for the right to earn their night’s salary in that province / state. Why not extend that philosophy to the revenues that those visiting players generate.

Of course, the issue of imbalanced schedules would cause much debate over which buildings one wanted to visit more often…

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 12:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I hate the idea the idea of the NHL losing a potential market of fans, as an Expos fanatic, I can’t help but smirk at the parallels here…

Through no fault of their own, city loses (or in this case, potentially loses) its team due to inept and ownership (and in the ‘Spos case, subterfuge from the league), yet media and fans in other cities blame what they perceive to be an unworthy fan base. "Baseball doesn’t belong in a city that only cares about hockey" they bloviated.

Yotes fans, I sympathize with you, and I’m one who defends southern markets to others around me, but while you go out and yell about what the evil media and Canadian fans say about your team, I hope you keep in mind what you though about Montreal and its right to its baseball team. Something tells me it wasn’t kind.

by Costa24 on May 7, 2009 1:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

I actually loved the Expos. I remember the Oil Can Boyd days. :) I thought it was crappy what the MLB did to them. I think it’s crapy what the leagues and chunks of media do to the fans of troubled teams all over. I didn’t understand the situation there because I wasn’t around. I thought the whole situation was sad. I even understand the fans of Winnipeg being upset (It really helps when we play preseason games there every year, way to rub it in) I get all of that. It’s never cool and the fans are always the ultimate victims.

Support Your Local Coyotes Blog! -
Five For Howling

by OdinMercer on May 7, 2009 1:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Love the ol' Can

Ah, memories.

Winnipeg gets Yotes pre-season games? Not too shabby. I imagine they get Canucks games, as well.

Now I’m jealous of the Peg, as Montreal gets no such Spring Training visits from the Nats.

On second thought, maybe that’s a good thing.

Yeah, Selig screwed Montreal fans. And many pundits south of the border justified it with the same illegitimate “non-traditional market” arguments. That’s why many Canadians can sympathize with the same unfair labelling of Phoenix. There will always be ignorant blowhards on the net and sensationalist writers in the papers, but I would hope that much of the fervour surrounding Ball Silly’s attempts dies down after the initial revelations broke less than 48 hours ago. I’m sure that you’ll see more fair and balanced coverage from us hosers moving forward. At least I suspect.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 2:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Vancouver was painted as a brutal basketball market when the NBA left, too, and that’s just not the case.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on May 7, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ditto Seattle

from what I’ve read. You being a left coaster, to have lost two teams to more traditional midwestern hoops markets must have sucked for your old hoops buddies back home. The sting of losing a team is bad enough, but to have the double-whammy of an “undeserving” label is what would make a Yotes move truly tragic.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Expos?

I loved the Expos. As a kid I bought their gear because I loved the design. Some of my favorite childhood players were Expos.

When the league bought the Expos and moved them, I was sorely pissed off. Furthermore, I didn’t read a SINGLE WORD about Major League Baseball being an American-only sport or hear American fans say, “Thank God we don’t have to put up with those stupid Quebecois and their French sullying our pure pastime!”

In fact, I would LOVE to see the Expos back in Montreal. Far better than the ass-munching Nationals… I mean, really, why can’t the Washingtonians just go to Orioles’ games?

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 2:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

You had me until the last sentence. The Expos were losing money left and right, the fans while rabid, were few and far between.

Since they’ve moved to DC the revenues of the franchise are one of the highest in the league. Like you said in an earlier post, I could have cared less about Baseball. Now that it’s in my backyard I am actually a fan of the sport.

Follow your own advice and think about the fans before making a blanket statement.

You saying that is almost like saying why do you need hockey? Why don’t you just go to LA?

by snowburnt on May 7, 2009 3:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

To be fair

She had included a winkie-face with her last sentence, but I hacked into James’ account and edited it.

To the Chamberburg, PA police: You know where to find me

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 5:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If you’ve ever been there, you can’t really blame anyone for not wanting to go to Bawmer.

nice sig, btw

by snowburnt on May 7, 2009 6:00 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

Emoticons

My mistake, I probably should have put in an emoticon or two in that last sentence.

I’ll tell you one thing – if the Coyotes leave, then the NHL and I are through. I might drag my sorry ass to Prescott to see a CHL game with the Sundogs once or twice, but considering that the only way I’d be able to cheer on any NHL teams is by buying a Center Ice package in a down economy, I might as well just save my money (and while I’m at it, cancel my XM subscription and cancel my digital cable since I won’t need the NHL Network or Versus anymore). The absolute last thing I’ll want to do is continue cheering for this franchise while the players are gushing about playing in a “real hockey market” and Jim Balsillie gets carried around on the shoulders of his countrymen for “saving” the Coyotes from its desert hell.

Fortunately, I’ve been assured that nobody will miss me.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on May 7, 2009 6:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

:-)

you won me back.

by snowburnt on May 7, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What if, instead of a salary cap and floor, both were eliminated – and replaced with a luxury tax system?

Set a bare minimum of what payroll is required to have a watchable team, so it isn’t all just minimum wage players – say 70% of the mean payroll averaged over the last three years (so really unusual bumps or drops are everaged out) and then put in a couple of thresholds, maybe at $50 million and another at $75 million or so. Teams can spend as much as they want, but if their payroll exceeds $50 million dollars they have to kick in another 20% of the overage into revenue sharing dolars for the less-advantaged teams. After $75 million, they have to ante up 35% of the additional payroll overage to share.

A team with the money could have a $100 million payroll, but they would also pay $13.75 million into the revenue sharing fund.

It might be a way to help out the smaller market teams more effectively, because a wealthy owner wouldn’t be spending a limited amount on his own team payroll and pocketing the rest as enormous profit – he would be spending some more of his profits on payroll, which would then lead to additional dollars being redistributed.

Sure, prices for the stars would go up, along with everyone else – but the stars would always get their money, and a team with an internal budget could still pitch the “take a little less for the sake of having a better surrounding team” approach. Brodeur has always taken less than he could demand on the open market because he likes playing for New Jersey.

(And playoff revenues should be exempt from revenue sharing. If a team want’s a cut of the playoff dollars, then get there your own dang self).

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on May 7, 2009 1:15 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Anything that could help the Leafs is cool with me

For whatever reason, the BoG steadfastly refused to consider a luxury tax, and insisted upon a hard cap. The Yankees don’t seem to care about how big their luxury tax bill is, but it doesn’t translate into Championships every year, so the thought of every 25 year old hockey superstar migrating to Toronto or the Rangers shouldn’t result in Cups every year.

Very good ideas, Baroque.

by TD O'Dell on May 7, 2009 2:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs