Ovechkin's knee
by James Mirtle on May 9, 2009 2:36 AM CDT
30 comments
A lot will be made, and for good reason, about Alex Ovechkin's knee-on-knee hit to Sergei Gonchar. Ovechkin made the split second decision to go in for a hit in hopes to disrupt the outlet pass and, to me, appeared to stick his leg out and that's what ended up leading with contact. Hopefully Gonchar didn't suffer a major injury. We'll see. Ovechkin's a physical player, and physical players sometimes get caught in gray zones.
That's about as fair a description of the hit as I've read in the aftermath. It was worthy of a penalty but wasn't a flagrant offence, and I believe Ovechkin when he says it was accidental.
Dirty plays in hockey often are.
"I don't have time to realize what's going on and he hit my knee and it was, I think, an accident," Ovechkin said. "I'm not the kind of player who wants to injure guys.
"Especially, I know Gonch, and I wouldn't hit him like this."
I hate those knee-on-knee shots because they can be so devastating, but they are often in cases like this, where a player appears to be going for a legitimate check and the angles come up all wrong. My guess is it would be a suspendable offence had it been a lesser, Matt Cooke type player on the offending end, but Ovechkin won't be penalized.
Still, the hit is going to have major ramifications for this series — and likely for the Penguins' chances in this postseason. Their record with Gonchar in the lineup has been far, far better than without, and prior to Game 4, he was averaging more than 27 minutes a game — six minutes better than any other Pittsburgh defenceman.
You don't replace that sort of ice time, not in the long term, and even if Ovechkin misses one game as a result, Gonchar is likely to miss many more.
This, frankly, is one of those infractions where there's no easy answer when it comes to the wheel of justice. And there's scarce little time to make a ruling, given Game 5 goes on Saturday night.
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tough tough tough call
that was insanely close. it’s really hard to pick out anything malicious there; not to blame the victim, but the knee-on-knee bit looks like it was mostly a result of gonch trying to get out of the way.
by passive_voice on May 9, 2009 3:33 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
What I hate about the NHL’s “wheel of discipline” is that the names of the players involved matter. The way I see it is if Chris Clark or Brooks Laich is the one making this same hit they are gone for 1-2 games. The fact that this is Ovie means I’ll be shocked if he even gets a warning.
I like Ovechkin but he is a pretty reckless player. Its going to be hard to feel bad for him when karma catches up and he gets clipped someday.
by colonial.red on May 9, 2009 6:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris Kunitz?
Maybe since the NHL didn’t do anything about Kunitz earlier head shot to Varlamov, they won’t do anything about this? Compare and contrast, please. I don’t care who wins this series, I just want to see the NHL be consistent.
by Truth Serum on May 9, 2009 6:28 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
RE: Chris Kunitz?
I don’t believe the NHL will suspend Ovie, and I don’t think they can if they want to remain consistent with the Kunitz discipline. If the NHL does anything, I think they should slap a hefty fine of AO and a stern warning and that will be sufficient. As far as the hit, I don’t believe the intent was to injure, but look at the video. It’s quite obvious that the hit appears dirty, so something has to be addressed by the league
by Geno'sArmy on May 9, 2009 7:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
He led with his knee, not his shoulder. I’m not in his head, so I’ll never know if it was intentional, but his demeanor in the presser after the game indicates to me that it probably wasn’t.
If AO truly feels close to Gonchar and it’s a serious injury, maybe AO will finally realize that his “style” of play is unsustainably dangerous. Should he be suspended, yeah, probably, but I’m under no delusion that it’ll happen, and you know what? That’s okay. It was borderline, not flagrant. Gonch was trying to get out of the way. But Ovie did stick his knee out to prevent it.
I just don’t know.
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by JustinM on May 9, 2009 8:31 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I am a Caps fan and of course bring that perspective but I’ve watch the replay at normal speed multiple times and I do not see anyone “leading with their knee;” I also don’t feel OV is a “reckless player” or that his style of play is “unsustainably dangerous.”
I know lots of fans who feel the way folks posting here do, I just disagree, it’s hockey, it’s a contact sport and it’s very fast, I just think that many of the things folks are talking about these days aren’t that big a deal. Of course I’m old, I played the game without a helmet, my favorite player of all time Barry Ashbee lost an eye playing, etc. I guess I’m old and wierd but all this junk about what were two plays in the heat of the moment and were probably not intentional from an “intent to injure” perspective are just distractions. To me the only thing I would have liked to see was Kunitz get 4 minutes – two double minors – since it was a cross check on a goalie who had his knees on the ice and wasn’t very mobile at the time. I just don’t hold with the sentiment that when someone gets injured someone else should get a suspension. Again I know there’s lots of opposing views on this and that’s fine, we all pay the price of admission so I think we’re all entitled to our opinions.
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by markbona-capsfan99 on May 9, 2009 9:51 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Regardles...
Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, he led with his knee. To say anything else is just wrong.
I also agree with Colonial.red above in that the discipline in the NHL is so inconsistent. The moment I saw this hit it reminded me of when Cherry ripped Ovechkin for getting free run at everyone and nothing happens to him back. It’s ironic that he wont fight yet he gets caught in situations like this.
by Rob Luker on May 9, 2009 9:56 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who tried to fight him? Ever? If he turtled or backed down from someone then you can say that but you’re just taking an easy shot. How many stars fight in hockey? Not many. When Crosby does it it’s clearly on his own terms, he doesn’t just accept challenges. I’d be willing to bet that AO has been working on his fighting skills with Brash, but I don’t know this for sure. Don’t pretend that him fighting has anything to do with this. The way the NHL works now if someone does something the other team doesn’t like the two goons just fight. What does that solve?
by Fehr and Balanced on May 9, 2009 11:43 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait a minute...
Who tried to fight him? Ever? If he turtled or backed down from someone then you can say that but you’re just taking an easy shot.
No one ever has tried because he is so unwilling to drop the gloves whatsoever.
How many stars fight in hockey? Not many.
Are you serious? This is the NHL, where even two visored kids (Zherdev v. Stamkos) drop the gloves. Apparently you missed Thornton v. Getzlaf last round too? Gimme a break.
Don’t pretend that him fighting has anything to do with this. The way the NHL works now if someone does something the other team doesn’t like the two goons just fight. What does that solve?
Fighting has everything to do with it because it keeps players in line. I don’t know if you have ever played at a competitive level, but when someone pulls a hit like Ovechkin’s knee; whether intentional or not, the player now has a target on his back. Maybe not necessarily one to fight, but definitely where players will start taking runs at cet player. You don’t let players come into your goalies crease because of the simple fact that he is your goalie. Ovechkin is willing to get into the middle of scrums and push people around, but still won’t drop ’em.
You have to answer for your actions, and Ovechkin gets to do bascially what ever he wants because if one person tries to do anything dirty to him half the league loses it. I’m with Don Cherry on this one, someone will get him good. If he would just drop the gloves there wouldn’t be an issue about the NHL protecting its stars and all the other BS.
by Rob Luker on May 9, 2009 4:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
No one ever has tried because he is so unwilling to drop the gloves whatsoever
It has been reported ONE time of Ovechkin turning down a fight. To Anaheim’s Bobby Ryan back in November, when he was trying to spark his team (who was losing), not because of an Ovechkin hit. Usually when someone is “unwilling” to do something, it when they are asked to do something. What are your other examples of Ovechkin being asked to fight and being unwilling to drop the gloves whatsoever? Surely there must be more.
by Cluster on May 9, 2009 5:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, and just so I’m clear, even as a diehard Caps and Ovie fan, I am in favor of him getting in a fight at some point. My argument is out of frustration when hearing countless people refer to Ovechkin as refusing to drop the gloves, when in fact he never gets asked to. It’s not hard to force someone into a fight, so players need to either stop complaining about his hits, or screw the instigator penalty and force him into a scrap. Trust me, he will not turtle.
by Cluster on May 9, 2009 5:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK but you’re not looking at it from both sides of the fence. Sure, I understand that no one asks him, but this is because he has made it clear over his career that he will not drop the gloves.
It’s like this to me; If someone asks you enough if you want soup, and you say no, even though you’ve only had it once or twice; after a while the person asking will stop asking.
by Rob Luker on May 9, 2009 5:25 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have no evidence that anyone ever asked him. You are purely speculating. Link me to some evidence and I’ll listen. As for Getzlaf and Thornton, I saw it, and I loved it. If Crosby or Malkin wants to fight AO I’m all for it. But that’s not what people are talking about. They are talking about Scuderi or Orpik going after him.
I have played competitive hockey for my whole life. I know what retribution is about. AO always has a target on his back because he is the best player on the Caps. This hit doesn’t change that. People want to hit him every chance they get and people have hit him. As was noted on Blueshirt Banter during the first round, people hit AO, he gets back up and continues to do his job.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 9, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well obviously I don’t have any evidence of anyone asking him for a fight; and neither do you or Cluster as well because were not on the ice. The point is, every player over their career has their moments when they have to decide whether to fight or not. People are talking about Scuderi and Orpik going after him because that is what needs to happen. But if they do go after him he will not fight anyways and they will receive a penalty, so whats the point?
And I disagree that he has a target on his back because he’s the best player. I didn’t care who I was playing, I just wanted to do my job and get my team the win. But players acquire a target on their back by running around like Ovechkin does leaving his feet and yapping his mouth when he gets hit (just like Cooke did just a few moments ago…).
by Rob Luker on May 9, 2009 7:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will, once again, call bullshit on this. I spend six months a year watching a competitive hockey league, the NCAA, that does not allow fighting. One fight, you’re suspended for a game. Second fight, two games. Third fight, the season.
There are fewer cheap shots in the NCAA than there are in the NHL. Not zero, but fewer. As far as I can tell, there’s no evidence whatsoever that fighting has a deterrent effect. Mostly, it’s people who just like fighting, but feel a need to dress that up somehow.
by J. Michael Neal on May 9, 2009 7:38 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ovechkin won't fight?
Ummmm, you should look at this: Ovechkin vs. Richards
…and the aftermath (from the Sportsbog) :
2) Ovechkin on his fight last night: “It’s ok, nothing special. I just go and protect my partner.”
3) Ovechkin on whether he’ll fight during the regular season: “If the situation [demands it], yes.”
4) Matt Bradley on whether Ovechkin will fight during the regular season: “We won’t let him do that ever again. It was impressive, though. That’s just the way Ovie is—he’s a competitor. It didn’t surprise us that he can fight too; you know, he can do everything else, so why couldn’t he fight? But he’s our best player, he’s our go-to guy on the team, and we don’t want him fighting.”
Ovechkin also had a fight in the RSL before he came to the Caps, and the reason you haven’t seen more of it? In the last 2 years Bradley (speaking for the team), so far, has been true to his word.
by errantelf on May 12, 2009 5:33 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How would you feel if Matt Cooke attempted similar contact that involved his knee on Ovechkin’s?
Knee on knee collisions are incredibly dangerous. They can end careers.
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by James Mirtle on May 9, 2009 9:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cooke is a dirty player so I would be more mad if he did something like that. Now, a guy like Talbot, I would probably feel similarly to how I feel now. AO’s not dirty, he plays hard and as Hooks said, he got caught in a gray area on this one.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 9, 2009 11:45 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
How many times has Ovechkin checked players from behind? The only reason why anyone argues he isn’t dirty is the fact that he’s got talent.
by Resolute on May 9, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that he doesn’t get called for a lot of the stuff he does. Checking from behind is a major penalty that’s never called. You can’t even get a minor for it.
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by JustinM on May 9, 2009 4:18 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn’t even close to limited to AO (not claiming that is what you said). Tooooons of hits from behind go uncalled. Besides, AO is more guilty of charges than hits from behind or elbows or things like that.
by Fehr and Balanced on May 9, 2009 6:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never said it was exclusive to him. :)
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by JustinM on May 13, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know you weren’t asking me, James, but if it’s any indication, even when Kasparaitis was a Penguin I couldn’t stand him.
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by JustinM on May 9, 2009 4:16 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im no fanboy of Ovechkin – but I think this was more accidental and “reactive” than some of his other plays. He routinely takes a million strides and jumps into the guy he’s hitting – which is the very definition of a charge.
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by poploser on May 9, 2009 10:00 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
and btw...
…if you watch this play at full speed again, it looks like he’s trying to lead with his shoulder – which is going to pull his knee out at the same time. I think this is about as “accidental” a knee-on-knee as you can find.
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by poploser on May 9, 2009 10:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ron MacLean....
…pointed out that only Bettman can make the call on kneeing penalties as to if they are suspension worthy. Weird rule… Campbell doesn’t look at these incidents at all. Only Bettman can intercede with a suspension in this case.
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by saskhab on May 9, 2009 11:55 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
I don’t know if whether he was trying to do it matters that much, does it? Ovechkin didn’t mean to but he hit Gonchar with his knee and caused an injury. Seems like it should be a game. I’d feel the same way if it were Dustin Brown.
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by RudyKelly on May 9, 2009 12:10 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
It was accidental, but it’s a symptom of Alex’s reckless physical game. If he gets a game, maybe he’ll learn to fine-tune his play without the puck and to be more careful about properly lining his hits up.
The NHL has to look at the effect this will have on the Pens and at least give the Caps a taste of that.
by Matt Saler on May 9, 2009 1:48 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
No way should that be a suspension
It was accidental, Ovechkin wanted to hit him with his shoulder.
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by adamgreuel on May 9, 2009 6:50 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Maybe. I’m no good at figuring out intent from video. However, I think that hits to the knees and hits to the head need to be treated like high sticking: intent doesn’t matter. You are responsible for where you hit someone.
by J. Michael Neal on May 9, 2009 7:40 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
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