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Handicapping the 2009 NHL awards

Washington Capitals' Alex Ovechkin gets ready for a motion-capture session for a new video game on the strip in Las Vegas on Tuesday. The NHL will be presenting their player awards in Las Vegas on Thursday.

More photos » Ryan Remiorz - AP

Washington Capitals' Alex Ovechkin gets ready for a motion-capture session for a new video game on the strip in Las Vegas on Tuesday. The NHL will be presenting their player awards in Las Vegas on Thursday.

So, today's the day: The NHL touches down in Vegas. There's been a lot of great coverage of things already and Chaka Khan hasn't even hit the stage, but to kick things off, here are my thoughts on who will win tonight and who should win.

For the most part, I think the voters will get things right (click on the name of the award to see my picks, revealed in previous posts):

Trophy Who will win Who should win
Hart Ovechkin Ovechkin
Lester B. Pearson Ovechkin
Ovechkin
Calder Mason Mason
Norris Chara Green or Chara
Vezina Thomas Thomas
Jack Adams Julien Julien
Selke Datsyuk Richards
Lady Byng Datsyuk Lidstrom*
Masterton Zednik Numminen*

*- not nominated

I expect the storyline tonight will be all about Ovechkin, Datsyuk and a trio of Bruins, although the Caps could steal the spotlight a bit if Mike Green pulls out the Norris Trophy. The voting on that one will likely be fairly close, but I doubt that's the case for many of the others.

  • Here's who ESPN readers are picking. Surprisingly, Barry Melrose isn't leading the Jack Adams tallies.
  • Eric Duhatschek is talking to players about an NHL club in Vegas and what it means in having the awards there the next three years.
  • The Las Vegas Sun tackled the same question from a local perspective. Patrick Kane seems to think this week will be sort of like The Hangover, but with pucks. "From what I hear, I think they'd get a lot of fans, a lot of sponsors, and maybe it'd be a good place for the NHL, but you're probably asking the wrong guy when you ask me. Players would love to see a team in Vegas, but who knows about everyone else."
  • Here's a look at how they're doing motion capture data for the latest 2k sports video game.
  • The red carpet begins at 3 p.m. today, so if you're in the neighbourhood snapping pictures, feel free to send them along. Otherwise, I'll have up an AP-assisted gallery later in the night along with a full roundup.
  • CBC is doing a live blog tonight.
  • Isn't it a little strange they never announced a host for the awards gala?
  • Tickets are still available.
  • Presenters tonight will be Pat Burns, Doug Gilmour, Pat LaFontaine, Pat Kane, Mark Messier, Reggie Lemelin, Andy Moog, Stan Mikita and Luc Robitaille.
  • The official after party for this business is going to be at a place called Rain, but "an unofficial-yet-totally-public post-show party will take place at Tao." Just in case you don't have a $504 ticket to the first one.
Poll
Will you watch the NHL awards tonight?
Yes
87 votes
No
147 votes

234 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 72 comments  |  Add comment |

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Is there an over/under on how soon into his award presentation Messier cries?

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

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by poploser on Jun 18, 2009 11:09 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Our guess is that Messier is sobbing before he enters the ceremony tonight

I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else

by Fauxrumors on Jun 18, 2009 11:40 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Green is going to win it, there was a lot of buzz when voting was going on. Fortunately for Green, voting wasn’t done during the playoffs.

by wlittle on Jun 18, 2009 11:15 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Thankfully

This sets up my now annual “Hockey Writers don’t care about Westerns” blog post rather ncely

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 11:40 AM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Are there NHL teams west of the Eastern time zone?

I find sometimes it's easy to be myself
sometimes I find it's better to be somebody else

by Fauxrumors on Jun 18, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are there NHL teams west of the Eastern time zone?

Answer according to 85% of Hockey Writers
• Detroit Red Wings
• Chicago Blackhawks
• Shane Doan
• SE division.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 11:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’ve heard a little about a guy named Jarome Iginila too….But he dropped off after Lecavalier beat his ass that one year.. :)

by Hooks Orpik on Jun 18, 2009 12:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I may have missed the sarcasm a bit, but Detroit is Eastern Standard.

by hallock on Jun 18, 2009 1:54 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

You missed the Sarcasm

Hockey writers are bad at geography, because of their East coast Bias, and just assume Detroit’s in the Central because they are in the Western Conference.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or Westerners*

I’m pretty sure some of them are big John Wayne fans

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure which of these awards should have went to a Pacific or Northwest team, anyway.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 11:46 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doughty for Calder.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on Jun 18, 2009 12:18 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would have been fine with him being nominated, but Mason clearly had the better season.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 12:46 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m not sure which of these awards should have went to a Pacific or Northwest team, anyway.

But this is the same thing that’s said every single year. Again it’s tough to make a case against any of these guys, but since the lockout here’s the numbers:

There are 8 awards voted on by hockey writers every season (Hart, Vezina, Norris, Calder, Lady Bing, Selke, Jack Adams, Masterton)

Of those 7 awards here’s the Central, Mountain, & Pacific time zones record those trophies since the lockout:

4&2/3 out of 24 (Thornton with 2/3 of the Hart in the west [and there’s no way he wins it without him playing for Boston for 1/3 of the season], Kipper- Vezina, Toews-Calder, Vigneault-Adams, Selanne-Masterton). If this holds true the forgotten 3 time zones will be 4 & 2/3 out of 32, and the Western conference has had the far more dominant teams over this 4-year stretch.

Here’s some Western conference candidates that could win these awards, if they played for an EST team:

Marleau, Demitra, Hejduk, Brunette, DuMont – Lady Byng
McLellan or Andy Murray – Adams
Pavelski, Kesler, Koivu – Selke
Backstrom – Vezina
Niedermeyer, Boyle, Weber – Norris (even though I think Lidstrom deserves it, again)

again I’m not saying any of these guys should most certainly win, but there are arguments to be made for all of them. Every year guys like these, with similar credentials to their Eastern Time zone counterparts, are shut out.

The should just do what baseball does and have a Western Conference and Eastern Conference award for all these categories except Masterton

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I did my analysis heavily based on the numbers and I really don’t think you can’t make the case for any of those Western Conference defencemen you mention. Koivu’s a good choice, the Jack Adams is a real tossup every year (and Murray may still win), and Backstrom’s numbers a heavily influenced by the style his team plays.

If you split the trophies entirely by Eastern/Western Conference, how do the numbers shake out?

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 1:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again, I agree with you on the Norris (even though I think there’s a better argument for Niedermeyer than you’re giving him in all honesty.) And, as I’ve said before, I like the way you do your analysis on the Norris contenders, but the fact remains that you’re one of the few writers who actually put that kind of analysis into that category.

I also realize that arguably the 4 top players in the world (and certainly 4 of the top 6) play in the East, despite the overall Western Dominance, and that the best Defenseman (Lidstrom) plays in the East, so the numbers are going to be skewed a little anyways since the Hart and Norris are going to go to an Eastern player nearly every season. I also realize the best team over the last 4 years (Wings) has also played in the EST. Yes this will skew the results some.

But it shouldn’t skew them as much as it has.


Backstrom’s numbers a heavily influenced by the style his team plays.

this hasn’t seemed to hurt Brodeur.

the Jack Adams is a real tossup every year (and Murray may still win)
But this is kind of the point. There’s more than one deserving candidate almost every year because every trophy is pretty much a toss-up every single year. The difference between the best defensive and second best in all of these is usually splitting hairs.

If you split the trophies entirely by Eastern/Western Conference, how do the numbers shake out?

11 % 2/3 out of 24… (3-norris Lidstrom, 3 Lady Bings and a Selke for Datsyuk) but I find it irrelevant to my argument. My argument is that teams in the east get the awards because hockey writers from the east (the majority) only watch the early games, and rarely stay up late to watch Pacific battles.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 1:48 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don’t think Mason’s winning because people here are tuning into a ton of BJs games.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 2:01 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, but there are times when a certain player has a nearly slam-dunk case, and Mason fits the bill here. The point is that’s the only way Most Western Conference teams can win (so fine throw Columbus into the forgotten time zones, the numbers don’t change all that much)

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

One of the major issues with your analysis is that it throws Detroit out of the West when they’ve been, by far, the Conference’s most dominant teams. Of course most of the end of season awards won by the West will be won by the Red Wings!

It skews things too much to say there’s this great inequity between the time zomes.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 2:57 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think so

Because it’s not like there’s a quota for Eastern conference and western conference teams to win awards, so Detroit is only winning the ones that should go to the west’s players. San Jose has also been one of the best teams (in the regular season) over that time and they haven’t won much of anything. Anaheim has been right there too.

The fact is it’s not the conference, it’s the time zone. It’s an east coast bias, not an eastern conference bias. I suspect that most of the hockey media pay attention to the Wings because they are one of the few West teams whose games come on early enough that they will watch. The bias comes from bedtime, not conference affiliation.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awkward
so Detroit is only winning the ones that should go to the west’s players

This reads awkwardly.. I meant to say that that it’s not like other stars in the West are being shut out because Detroit players are winning the awards that would otherwise go to a western conference player.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are 8 awards voted on by hockey writers

Actually, the GM’s vote for the Vezina and the Adams is selected by the broadcasters association, so you should only blame James’ peers for six awards.

Go ahead and blame Milbury and Maguire for selecting Claude Julien if you like. I, however, would disagree with you if you did. I think Mclellan should have been left off for Hitchcock, myself.

As for the Vezina, there are only 13 general managers based east of the Mason-Dixon line (not the Civil War one, the Columbus-Nashville one). If 17 of them are accustomed to seeing more goalies from the East, then it shouldn’t surprise you to see Tim Thomas get more recognition than Luongo or Nabokov.

Similarly, if as many as 57% of the writers are based in the East, the bias you describe is also valid. (I don’t know how true it is that only 43% of writers are on the east coast, with publications like SI based in L.A.)

Either way, I don’t see the disparity being that large. Of the 14% of additional writers based in the East, how many do you blame for ignoring the West? All of them? That still doesn’t account for a huge difference. Tim Thomas received 22 first place votes from the 30 GM’s, meaning that a minimum of 5 western managers picked him.

Your point is valid, but to what degree? Surely you’re not implying that Eastern writers have as little regard for Western-based players as GWB has for black people. If that’s your conclusion, then paint my jaw as close to the floor as Mike Myers’.

Personally, I think Kesler deserved more Selke love than Datsyuk, though Richards got screwed by a few 4th and 5th place votes from the so-called Eastern writers in Nashville who see Datsyuk three times more often than Philly. Your point is best illustrated by the lack of attention to Luongo, who deserved a better fate, IMO.

by TD O'Dell on Jun 19, 2009 7:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

More than 57% are west of the Mississippi, since most national Hockey writers (who are also voting members) are also based in either Toronto or New York. Those same national writers based East of the Mississippi drive the discussion.

And the Jack Adams is one of the few awards where Western teams actually get the proper attention (Personally I thought Barry Trotz, despite missing the playoffs, did a great job coaching this season.)

Surely you’re not implying that Eastern writers have as little regard for Western-based players as GWB has for black people. If that’s your conclusion, then paint my jaw as close to the floor as Mike Myers’.

No It’s not that they don’t have any regard for them, it’s that they don’t watch them actually play. They (in general) watch the early games and go to bed. I don’t blame them, who wants to stay up until 1am watching a Sharks-Ducks clash, even if it’s a good game. Example: how many Selke votes did Sam Pahlsson get the last 3 years? In my eyes he was the best defensive forward for at least 2 of the last 3 seasons. Was he even a finalist?

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 21, 2009 2:28 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree with you about Pahlsson. I have been singing his praises the past two years along with many other worthy Selke candidates, while attention is paid to the amazing two-way forwards like Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

I also agree that several, if not many Eastern writers must skip parts, if not all of some weekday matchups in the PST. Just as some L.A. based reporters must surely skip some of the 10 AM EST weekend games.

Your point is valid. I just think you may be exagerating the effect a little. Even if every Eastern writer completely ignored every period of every game between two teams from California, and paid zero attention to the boxscores and recaps the following day, the fact that as much as 57% of the voting originates in the Eastern time zone cannot be blamed for Boyle’s lack of a Norris this year, or Marleau’s lack of a Lady Byng. Most of the examples of snubs that you cite come from the Central time zone, whose games end at 10:30 EST.

There is no cartel of Eastern voters. The truth is that the concentration of teams in the East actually causes more animosity between cities. Toronto reporters are critical of Sens and Habs. Rangers beat writers have a bias against Flyers and Devils. If anything, the slight prejudices serve only to favour Western candidates. The issue is visibility, where Sakic may only visit MSG once every 5 years or so, and Thornton didn’t play an entire period in Boston until 2009. That same issue applies evenly to both Conferences, so the only difference is that every Sharks writer sees Columbus and Detroit 4 times per year.

You throw out the Masterton for some reason, while keeping an emphasis on the Lady Bing and Selke. I don’t see much distinction between these three subjective awards. If you were to focus solely on the three main awards that writers vote on, I feel that your argument would be less watered down.

With that in mind, I also wonder why you exclude the Pearson from your analysis. After all, the same proportion of players live in the East, and in fact, while many writers are switching over to a Sharks game, those Pearson voters are busy showering and getting dressed.

I do not take issue with the methodology of your study. I just think that your conclusions place too much importance on the assumption that writers all go to sleep at 9:30, and that that causes them to not know how good a player Niedermayer may be. The bias does exist, but it is far less important than other biases.

How many Dallas or Phoenix reporters watch a game between Calgary and Edmonton? How many Columbus writers tune into a Habs-Sens matchup?

The truth is that, as a beat reporter who is attending a game, the odds that you’ll be watching another game that is being played at the same moment is far smaller than the odds that you’ll be watching the West Coast game that starts after your “real” job is over.

Your assertion that the West gets ignored sounds eerily similar to a typical Canadian perception that American media ignores an all-Canadian matchup. Just look at the argument against holding a Winter Classic in Canada. The majority of people, on both sides of the border, argue that Americans would never tune into such a game, the way they might for a game at Wrigley or Fenway.

Maybe the fact that, since the lockout, most awards have gone to teams in the Eastern time zone has far, FAR more to do with merit, and far less to do with a perceived bias. I’m not denying the bias exists, but your contention that it is the driving factor is far off, IMO.

Anyway, who cares? So Datsyuk gets a Lady Bing every year. So what? You have stated that Lidstrom deserves his Norris trophies. Obviously Ovie deserves his Harts. Kane got a Calder.

Are you simply arguing that more Westeners deserved 3rd and 4th place finishes than they have been getting? Point out a single trophy that was wrongly awarded to an Eastern-based guy, when it belonged to a Central, Mountain or Pacific player.

I’ll get you started with Pahlsson over Brind’Amour in 2007. Just like Datsyuk this year, Brind’Amour garnered enough name-recognition votes in 2007 because he was the incumbent. I don’t see a case for any other snubs, and I think that your annual complaint is much ado about nothing. Not to say that it isn’t a good feature of your blog, but it does seem like a stretch and even at that, a fairly manufactured controversy.

BTW, your cutoff at 2006 skews the results to favour your pre-conceived conclusion. What about Forsberg, Sakic or Pronger winning Harts a few years earlier? Is it your contention that this bias is somehow related to the “new” NHL? You can point out how Detroit is in the EST, but I can assure you that every Toronto writer sees far more Canucks games. You can say that the past four years have seen the West win only a few awards, but can you point to anyone who didn’t deserve them?

For your own readers, the Jibbles Awards offer a light read and fun diversion, but how many among them were actually snubbed by PHWA voters?

by TD O'Dell on Jun 21, 2009 6:10 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow

That’s a lot, but i’ll try to make some quick bullet points:

Is it your contention that this bias is somehow related to the "new" NHL?
Yes. I use post-lockout because that’s when the schedule changed to a more geo-centric scheduling, meaning western conference teams are seen a lot less by those eastern writers. Before that West teams played Eastern teams more.

• I leave the Masterton out because it’s a different kind of trophy. It’s more a “Comeback player of the year” or a perseverance. Even if you put it in the mix, the numbers don’t improve all that much.

Your assertion that the West gets ignored sounds eerily similar to a typical Canadian perception that American media ignores an all-Canadian matchup
They do.

• I don’t think there’s a cartel or some effort to only vote for Eastern players, but that’s just how it happens to fall. But yes beat writers on their off night and national writers based in the east who don’t go to games will watch a lot more Eastern games, and form biases that way.

• I’ve also acknowledged that in certain areas, the EST has the best players for that position, and that more players play in the EST, so there will inherently win more awards anyways.

• I think the Selke and Lady Bing are perfect examples, because of their subjectivity, and then look at how skewed the results are. The whole point is that the more opinion, and less stats" are used to determine an award winner, the more likely the award winner will be an Easterner. The Selke and Lady bing are perfect examples.

Are you simply arguing that more Westeners deserved 3rd and 4th place finishes than they have been getting? Point out a single trophy that was wrongly awarded to an Eastern-based guy, when it belonged to a Central, Mountain or Pacific player.

This is the argument that I was trying to not get into, because I don’t want to be an affront to anyone who did win the award. I even said every award winner this season was worthy of the award.

The fact is that the difference between, say Marleau and Datsyuk for the Lady Bing (just as an example) is extremely minimal, as is Datsyuk and Koivu for the Selke. That doesn’t mean Datsyuk isn’t deserving of the award, but it means that Koivu or Marleau, who are equally deserving, won’t get the trophy.

• Why does this matter? because these awards are looked at when Hall of fame discussions come around. And if they don’t matter why award them at all?

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2009 10:44 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

All good points
  • I would just add that the 2003-2004 schedule is identical to the one used this year. The three seasons that employed a more geographically skewed schedule allowed for only 10 inter-conference games, versus the 18 that we saw in 2004 and 2009.
  • The President of the PHWA is Larry Brooks (NY), but other officers are spread around the continent, including the APSE liason (TN), VPs (TX, ON, BC, FL)
  • I have no doubt that members are concentrated in urban centres, though I assert that many reside in L.A., Vcr, Cgy, Edm, Chi, and Dal.
  • There are 440 members of the PHWA, but only 133-170 who vote. If 57% of those votes come from the EDT and that causes Datsyuk to win more Lady Bings than Marleau, then why is the margin of victory much greater than a 57-43 split?
  • Toronto may have the most or maybe New York does, but the suggestion that Al Strachan or others from Toronto ignore the west is a stretch. They may not see every SJ-Anh game, but they also miss many Cls-Det games or Atl-NYI games, just as Larry Brooks misses several Otw-Fla games.
  • Your beef seems to be more about population density than anything else. Just as there are more electoral votes in Ohio than the entire Northwest, or more votes in Virginia than the Southwest (Cali excluded), or more votes in Florida than the midwest. There are more writers in big cities and more cities in the East.
  • When looking at a one-city one-vote example like the Vezina, do you see much of a difference when compared to the PHWA awards? There are still 17 of 30 votes coming from the EDT.
  • Your point about awards leading to HoF consideration isn’t totally without merit. I would argue that nobody ever got elected for Lady Bings. Maybe Gainey got in for his Selkes, but you’d be hard-pressed to show me another example. Now that the Selke rewards two-way play rather than pure defence, guys like Fedorov, Yzerman and Datsyuk won’t be voted in based upon their Selkes, either. The fact that HoF voters are concentrated in the East is a much better argument.
  • When looking at recent HoF inductees, I see plenty of Westerners. In the 80’s, the schedule was heavily weighted toward divisional games, yet Glenn Anderson got elected by Eastern voters. Meanwhile, Paul Henderson still awaits his turn.

Look, you have a point, but as I’ve said, almost every region could make a similar argument. You point out on your blog that the SE division gets overlooked, so it can’t be all about time zones. The effect you describe is, IMO, minimal. The reason Ovie and Lidstrom and Datsyuk keep winning is because they deserve it, as you agree.

Your point may be best applied to the guys who don’t even get nominated as Finalists. Guys who finish 9th might deserve to finish 7th, but that doesn’t affect their HoF status. Osgood has no Vezinas or Conn Smythes, but gets mentioned in every HoF discussion. The individual awards don’t matter nearly as much as Cups, and as soon as a Western team starts winning as many Cups as Montreal, the Islanders, Edmonton or Detroit, then they will get more inductees. Look at your Avs. Shoe-ins include Roy, Bourque (bad example), Forsberg and Sakic. It’s not the only avenue into the Hall, but neither are awards.

How about these Western guys who never won either, yet made the Hall:

Dionne (OK, the Lady Byng)
Oates
Federko

You might be able to name 8 or 9 eastern guys, but keep in mind that the league used to be even more concentrated in the East. My point is that the list of guys in the Hall with a Cup, but no awards, would be much longer. The list of guys with an award, but no Cup is almost exclusively reserved for Calder winners (Hawerchuk, Bure), meaning that they spent all but their first season earning their way into the Hall without an award.

It comes down to this. Yes the West gets slightly overlooked. As do Canadian-based players. Your contention that only 6 of 32 winners were out West (Masterton included), is easily refuted by the fact that only 3 of 32 were up North. Take out the Masterton (for whatever reason), and the west wins 4 of 28 versus Canada’s 2 of 28.

The West has 13 teams and Canada has only half of that, so maybe that’s why Canada only wins half the Awards. If there was a PHWA bias, then surely Canada would benefit from it more than the West.

Other than Pahlsson in 2007, or any of the four stupid Lady Bings that Datsyuk took home, all 28 of the awards were won by the right person, so any perceived bias can only be applied to the 9th place also-rans. If you want to get into that, however, then I complain that Crosby only finished 6th for the Hart.

I’d be more likely to cite an East Coast vote-splitting problem, where every Western writer votes as a bloc.

by TD O'Dell on Jun 22, 2009 1:50 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately I can’t debate this with you anymore, as I will have almost no internet access the rest of the week.

I’m sure we’ll have the opportunity to argue it next year at this same time.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 22, 2009 3:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think we covered everything

I totally see your point, but as you said on your blog about the SE, other regions are affected by the same demographic dispersal of writers, each with their own legit arguments.

by TD O'Dell on Jun 22, 2009 4:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, the GM’s vote for the Vezina and the Adams is selected by the broadcasters association, so you should only blame James’ peers for six awards.

I blame James for my mistake since he had a post where he voted for the goalies…

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 21, 2009 2:29 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a common misconception

Personally, I don’t see why the PHWA isn’t looked to for their opinions on goalies and coaches. Maybe the Adams was dedicated to the broadcasters alone for some reason, and has simply retained its intial dedication, but the Vezina used to go to the best GAA. By the time it was re-dedicated, the PHWA already had their 6 trophies. Why’d they get left out of a seventh?

by TD O'Dell on Jun 21, 2009 6:15 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the general consensus is that we agree with you in general that there is an East Coast bias in the NHL award voting, but this is a bad year to make an example out of it.

"Hey! Farmboy! Maybe you can't count, but there are four of us and one of you."

"So get some more guys and then it'll be an even fight."

by Afino on Jun 18, 2009 3:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kane won the Calder, not Toews. Don’t mean to nitpick.

You and I are gonna live forever

by Original Six on Jun 18, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad.. you’re right.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 1:35 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be fair

Westerns generally are pretty crappy movies.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Jun 18, 2009 12:10 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

I deserved this

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:25 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't see why they just don't award two.

Baseball has a ROY in each league, a Cy Young in each league, etc. – why not have a Western and Eastern conference vezina, Norris, etc?

It would give them an excuse to invite more hockey players to look awkward in suits.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 2:22 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree

If they are going to have 2 conferences that rarely play each other, there should be 2 awards.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:26 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems only fair.

Everyone talks about how different the style is in each conference anyway – why not just treat them as being as separate as the American and National Leagues?

Does anyone know if basketball and football have two awards? I don’t follow those sports at all.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 2:40 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

no they don’t

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:42 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only one award, but there are only two finalists, with each conference/league having a MVP that faces off against each other.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on Jun 18, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That’s actually not a bad way to do it.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 2:59 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 3:09 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

While you’re at it, give an award to the best left winger, the best center, the best right winger, best left d-man, and best right d-man too!

In each league!

(this makes more of a mockery of baseball’s awards than your post, so please don’t take it as an insult – I’m on board with your idea)

"Hey! Farmboy! Maybe you can't count, but there are four of us and one of you."

"So get some more guys and then it'll be an even fight."

by Afino on Jun 18, 2009 3:24 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was meant to be nested under Baroque’s statement.

"Hey! Farmboy! Maybe you can't count, but there are four of us and one of you."

"So get some more guys and then it'll be an even fight."

by Afino on Jun 18, 2009 3:27 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have a thicker skin than that – so no offense taken. :)

The NHL could actually raise some money by inventing a bunch of new awards and selling sponsorship of them for each year. ;)

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't they do this already?

If not, what the hell is the Mark Messier Leadership award?

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 3:58 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

How much would someone pony up for the Norris Trophy Sponsored by Goodyear Tires?

Or the Just For Men Jack Adams Award?

Inventing awards after retired players is small potatoes.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

• The Trojan® brand Vezina
      -“Don’t pull this goalie”

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

“Protect your net so you don’t have little pucks popping out.”

You and I are gonna live forever

by Original Six on Jun 18, 2009 7:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Rocket Richard brought to you by Viagra. Because Richard’s another name for …

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 8:15 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Against my better judgement

I’m probably going to watch. /me sighs

resident cartoonist @couchtarts.blogspot.com. Endorsed by Mr. K on "CINCODEMYOOR!!!!!"

by CTGray on Jun 18, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

Isn’t it a little strange they never announced a host for the awards gala?

Probably don’t want the host to overshadow all the awesome bands that will be at the afterparty

by Hansmoleman on Jun 18, 2009 1:30 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I’d rather rub one out with steel wool than endure another NHL awards ceremony.

by hallock on Jun 18, 2009 1:56 PM CDT reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

I was trying to put to words how I felt about tonight’s show but you summed it up perfectly.

by Jo4nny on Jun 18, 2009 3:04 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lidstrom

it’s not like you can really feel bad for him if he doesn’t win it, and it’s not like he’d truly be getting robbed (green and chara of course had ridonk seasons), but….

lidstrom was the best d-man in the world this year. again.

by passive_voice on Jun 18, 2009 2:02 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

I disagree. I thought Lidstrom had a down year, and was only the third best defensman in the league. Age catches up with everyone. Still, they were probably looking to give it to someone else, since he’s the most boring superstar in sports history.

by J. Michael Neal on Jun 18, 2009 11:45 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree

I’m an Avs fan, and he was the best defenseman in the league, again. The Wings are, simply, a completely different team when he is in the lineup. I don’t think they are a Stanley cup contender without him. A good team, maybe, but without him they are equal with the Canucks or Blackhawks. He takes that team to another level. He’s that good.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 19, 2009 12:30 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patty Sharp found his weakness though.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 19, 2009 12:33 AM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

What’s the over/under on the amount of time MacLean takes to make a horrible attempt at a joke/pun that hardly anyone in the crowd finds funny? What’s the over/under on the number of people in the crowd who actually laugh at the joke?

by Bosc Ulrich on Jun 18, 2009 2:03 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

You know, people who don’t realize $500/seat tickets are a joke on them probably will find it funny. I imagine it will be like watching a Dane Cook special. I see someone talking, and I see people laughing, but I have no idea what they found funny.

The 2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Slumpbusters

by Jibblescribbits on Jun 18, 2009 2:08 PM CDT up reply actions   1 recs

Maybe that’s the result of the pre-award show drinking.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jun 18, 2009 2:20 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Quit knocking my father’s sense of humour, Bosc! I love Ron Maclean’s jokes for the simple fact that they are the exact jokes my dad rolls in his chair for, or laughs at a hysterical volume that disrupts the movie watching experience at a public theatre for. I’m glad there is at least one public figure who tells these jokes, making me not the only person subject to them on a consistent basis.

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on Jun 18, 2009 2:29 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, I never said that the people that laugh at those had bad senses of humour. People can still enjoy bad jokes without having a bad sense of humour :) Just that not many people will laugh along with them…

by Bosc Ulrich on Jun 18, 2009 4:32 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Do we know that Ron MacLean is hosting? I haven’t heard a thing on that front.

Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com

by James Mirtle on Jun 18, 2009 3:00 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just assumed he was. Does anyone recall the last time he didn’t host the show?

by Bosc Ulrich on Jun 18, 2009 4:33 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Allan Thicke in the early 1990s?

Hockey blogging can't get any flatter.

by saskhab on Jun 18, 2009 4:36 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bad TV

Hockey players in tuxedos reading off teleprompters is without question the worst event on the NHLs TV calendar.

"It's a great day for hockey" - BBJ

by jealous broadcaster on Jun 18, 2009 2:16 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

We can only hope Datsyuk and Ovechkin clean up.

by Bosc Ulrich on Jun 18, 2009 4:34 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice crowd too.

I think they might have sold five tickets for this that aren’t NHL players, owners, or other league personalities.

Hell, this makes a Coyotes game look like a sellout! rimshot

Seriously, though. This is painful. The five guys applauding for people going to the podium is ridiculous. If they can’t get a full room of applause for Tricia Helfer, they are seriously messed up.

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Jun 18, 2009 7:07 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is a trainwreck. It has nothing to do with location it has to do with not having anyone involved with personality (Tim Thomas aside). I understand that some of the players aren’t going to be the best on stage but at least pair them someone that can help them.

by jkrdevil on Jun 18, 2009 7:36 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs

i turned it on, saw Tony Esposito, and had to turn it off.

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://glensathersucks.com/
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo

by poploser on Jun 18, 2009 7:56 PM CDT up reply actions   0 recs

I’m catching James’ Tweets, and trainwreck or not, I think you seeing some pretty genuine guys accepting their awards.

by cubanpuckstopper on Jun 18, 2009 7:53 PM CDT reply actions   0 recs


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