The Blackhawks' qualifying offer 'debacle'

by James Mirtle on Jul 4, 2009 6:15 AM CDT Comment 30 comments

Pretty interesting story from late last night involving the Blackhawks and several qualifying offers:

Sources tell TSN the NHL and the NHLPA are investigating what might have been an enormous mistake by the Chicago Blackhawks.

Chicago tendered qualifying offers to several key players this week, including Kris Versteeg, Cam Barker, Ben Eager, Colin Fraser, Aaron Johnson and Troy Brouwer, however the investigation underway is to determine whether the qualifying offers were filed correctly.

If not, there is the remote possibility the qualifying offers could be ruled invalid and the players listed above, conceivably, could be deemed unrestricted free agents because of the blunder.

Early indications are that this won't be a major issue, although Johnson's agent, Allan Walsh, offered these thoughts on Twitter a few hours after the TSN story came out:

Walsh-twitter_medium

I don't see those messages on his account this morning, so I suppose they were deleted. (Maybe this all isn't such a debacle after all?) Still, it seems like poor organization on the 'Hawks part to not ensure everything was filed well ahead of time.

Tom Benjamin says GM Dale Tallon should bear the brunt of the blame.

0 recs | Comment 30 comments | Add comment | Share

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I’m just amazed that a major business would still use snail mail for important contract issues when faxing the offers to the agents would apparently be a completely acceptable alternative. If you can fax instead of mail, always choose that option – quicker, more secure, no doubt about if it reaches the recipient. Just poorly organized to not do things that way.

"A vacuum is a hell of a lot better than some of the stuff that nature replaces it with." -- Tennessee Williams

by Baroque on Jul 4, 2009 7:04 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

This was a hot flash for me after riding the highs of the Hossa and Madden signing. There’s no way, though, that these players will default into UFA status; I mean, if the league (and NHLPA especially) pushed it, that’s what could happen, but not only would that be tragic for the Hawks, it would also look bad on the league as a whole, I’d think. No? It seems too drastic a reaction considering the scope of the mistake. Just some idiocy in mailing choice.

As well, isn’t Walsh Havlat’s agent too? I doubt he’s terribly happy with Tallon, et al., just now anyway.

Regardless, very dumb blunder.

by ChicoMaki on Jul 4, 2009 8:20 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Why should it look bad on the league? These deadlines exist. It’s not the leagues fault if you’re a completely incompetent GM who chooses to trade off Chara, Luongo, etc. etc., or if you’re a completely incompetent GM who forgets to sign important players to qualifying offers. It makes the Hawks look stupid, not the league.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Jul 4, 2009 3:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about Corey Crawford? I thought he had a decent shot at making the big club.

Bryan Bickle is the other Chicago RFA. Call them the Chicago Seven, unless there’s an unheralded prospect named Bobby Seale to go with them.

by TD O'Dell on Jul 4, 2009 8:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe Antti Niemi is their goalie of the future.

SNN Sports - A theoretical Oilers blog (i.e. theoretically, I write stuff there)

by Doogie2K on Jul 4, 2009 9:52 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I have no doubt that he is, and I even called him to back up Huet over Crawford last week, as the goalie of the present.

I was more wondering what happened to Corey Crawford’s Q.O. Maybe he and Bickle are the last men in America to still own a fax machine. Seriously though. I wanted to apply for a job recently, but the only contact number provided was a fax. I’m sure my PC must have one built in, but damned if I know how to use it. The local drugstore here has a payphone-type fax, but I think they got rid of the soda counter a few decades ago.

With the young team that Tallon is dealing with, he needs to consider tweeting (does facebook still exist?) his next batch of contract offers. The upside is that including a detailed NMC becomes more difficult when restricted to 144 chars.

by TD O'Dell on Jul 4, 2009 6:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is not a chance on earth anything happens regarding this. Both the NHL and NHLPA know that Chicago is one of those golden teams they want to be successful, so the letter of the law wont apply to them. The worst they will get is a strongly worded letter (sent via regular mail) asking them not to do this again.

by Resolute on Jul 4, 2009 9:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Precedent

A similar situation arose in 2000 with the New Jersey Devils. From a commenter on my site:

From the New York Times:

[In 2000] the Devils made mistakes filing paperwork that allowed John Madden and Brian Rafalski to become free agents. Lamoriello had to sign each player to four-year extensions that cost the team $18 million.

And from Al Strachan:

The New Jersey Devils had an option to renew the contracts of defenceman Brian Rafalski and forward John Madden, but forgot to send out the necessary paperwork.

As a result, both players qualified to become free agents without compensation.

Rafalski was due to earn US$450,000 this season and Madden $550,000. Knowing the Devils, they could have expected 10 percent raises for the next few seasons.

Instead, general manager Lou Lamoriello had to cave in big time. Rafalski got a four-year, $11-million deal. Madden will earn $7 million over the same span.

If they caught Loophole Lou then I can see Tallon getting dinged.

Pension Plan Puppets: A Toronto Maple Leafs blog and a group therapy session.

by PPP on Jul 4, 2009 12:35 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If they caught Loophole Lou, Dale Tallon is freakin’ toast.

Gross Misconduct with yours truly

by HockeyJoe on Jul 4, 2009 1:34 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

If i remember correctly, Lemonjello forgot to send the paperwork at all, but since I can’t find a link, I must be mistaken!

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://glensathersucks.com/
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo

by poploser on Jul 4, 2009 3:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My hebrew school teacher last year

would tell this story about these kids (I think they might have been twins) who were named Lemonjello and Orangejello (pronounced leh-MAHN-jeh-loh and or-RAHN-jeh-loh). Has anyone else heard about them, or is it too much of a local thing?

ZING! ZANG! ZUNG!

by crabchowdah on Jul 4, 2009 10:15 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

everyone has a version of that story

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Jul 5, 2009 10:17 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Devils aren’t one of the League’s golden teams. The Hawks are.

This, really, is a lot like the league’s “black and white” rule on instigating in the last 5 minutes of game, which magically changed when it was faced with the embarrassment of having Gretzky become the first coach fined for it. Suddenly, shades of grey were introduced to that rule.

Likewise, the league will act to prevent a mistake in Chicago from becoming an embarrassment to a franchise that is rapidly becoming the league’s darling.

by Resolute on Jul 4, 2009 8:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

And there’s a “black and white” rule against crossing the red line during pregame skate that got Donald Brashear suspended in the playoffs, but not Malkin. Never Malkin!

by Gould Old Days on Jul 5, 2009 12:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The league doesn't have

a Wheel of Collective Bargaining Justice. The CBA is a lot less flexible than the rulebook.

I've been looking at the sky

by Back In Black on Jul 5, 2009 11:55 AM CDT up reply actions 2 recs

Additional sources say qualifying offers are not supposed to be mailed. Overnight delivery via courier and direct fax to the players agent is preferred and certified or registered mail is acceptable only if the other means are unavailable. Tallon says fax copies of the offers were sent to the league, so he doesn’t anticipate any significant fall out.

Seems pretty clear that they need to be sent to players at least by fax, but in no case worse than overnight delivery. Nothing in Section 10.2(a)(ii) of the CBA, which explains Qualifying Offers, says the type of notice that must be given. It says that the team “must tender to the Player, no later than 5:00 p.m. New York time on the later of June 25 or the first Monday after the Entry Draft…A Qualifying Offer will be deemed to have met the above requirements if the Prior Club timely provides the Player a completed copy of the notice attached as Exhibit 19…”

So then Exhibit 3 is the Notice provision, which requires, during the off-season, "notice(s) shall be sent via overnight delivery to the Player’s off-season address…and if not such address is provided by the Player, the notice(s) shall be sent via overnight delivery to the Player’s last known address. If no method of service is specified in [the CBA], service of the required notice shall be effectuated by either facsimilie transmission or overnight mail delivery..

Glen Sather is a Hockey Genius.

http://glensathersucks.com/
http://twitter.com/ThGeneralissimo

by poploser on Jul 4, 2009 10:02 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Not so sure this will quickly be swept under the rug

In legal matters, such as the tendering of an offer, the manner of delivery of certain documents is an important concept. Lawyers are used to “serving” one another with papers that constitute discrete steps in a formalized process like litigation. It is incredible to me that the Hawks front office would fail to comply with the process formally set out in the CBA for delivery of important, relationship and rights defining documents such as these.

There will be pressure from the league to protect the Hawks – no doubt. But the potential monetary implications for the players involved are potentially enormous. There will also be huge pressure from the PA, I would expect, for the players to insist upon the full complement of their rights under the CBA. I don’t think this is the kind of decision the league will be able to make unilaterally; the PA would have to go along with any decision to basically overlook the Hawks’ mistake, wouldn’t it?

jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog

"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)

by jrwendelman on Jul 4, 2009 10:23 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

The Ghost of Bill Wirtz lives

Tallon mailed them?
What? Chicago doesn’t have an account with Fed Ex or UPS?

by Exit716 on Jul 4, 2009 10:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Molehill Mountain?

Is this really going to be the big deal TSN wants it to be? This breathless report on the TSN site smacks more of TMZ than TSN, to be honest.

Although you’d guess that in this day of Twitter, e-signatures, and online filing that the team could simply shoot a PDF of the offer sheet to the player’s agents to their BlackBerrys to fulfill the terms of the rules…

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Jul 4, 2009 11:01 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and...

…TweetDeck rules!

You are validating my inherent mistrust of strangers.

by zyllyx on Jul 4, 2009 12:04 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think the Blackhawks may have themselves a very serious problem. If the CBA specifies a method for communicating an offer, it seems to me that any offer must use that method in order to be valid.

I am not a lawyer, but the CPA exams have a section on contract law, so I have studied this a bit. With regard to specified method of communications, what I have to know is whether or not the acceptance of an offer is valid if the offer specifies how acceptance is to be communicated. This could be different than specifications as to how an offer is to be communicated pursuant to a collective bargaining agreement, but my guess is that it isn’t.

If any of the players were to push this as far as an arbitrator, I suspect that they would be ruled a UFA.

by J. Michael Neal on Jul 4, 2009 12:11 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

If the CBA says that it has to be sent by carrier pigeon at midnight while you burn a goat in barrel, that’s what you have to do. I think that this could well result in players being UFA. I would suspect that right now, Tallon is fielding phone calls from agents who are threatening grievances and then seeing what he’s willing to offer as a contract.

by mc79hockey on Jul 4, 2009 1:24 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

NHLPA lurks in the background

I don’t think this is going to go away quietly. The NHLPA is likely to vigorously pursue the rights of it’s members. If the players were not properly notified of their QO’s, the NHLPA will wrestle the league and the Blackhawks to the ground with the CBA terms and win.

by NHL Observer on Jul 4, 2009 1:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

From my own blog:

For the NHLPA, while the revenues from a good CHI team are important, I think the issue of individual player’s rights in a situation where team management has clearly screwed the pooch should take precedence. Firmly establishing player’s rights in the situation of such a mistake is not going to return CHI to the depths of the league’s revenue system.

I think its in the NHLPA’s (and the player’s and their agents) best interest to fight the league tooth and nail on this. Getting their players the best deal, regardless of Dale Tallon’s incompetence as GM is their priority. If CHI is going to stop being a major cash cow, its going to happen regardless due to poor management, whether they’ve given Versteeg and Barker as a free gift or not. Their agents should be raising hell.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Jul 4, 2009 3:12 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs

It isn’t a question of whether the NHLPA thinks that it’s in its interests to fight this. If any of the players decides that they want to fight it, the players’ association is legally obligated to represent them.

by J. Michael Neal on Jul 4, 2009 4:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

The passage I quoted was more or less a response to Tom Benjamin, who brought up the issue of if the NHLPA would want this to be quietly fixed to help promote a giant cash cow in CHI (thereby helping the whole of the PA by raising revenues) or if the PA would want to protect individual member’s rights and try to let a few individuals cash in. The issue was brought up here too, on whether the NHLPA would want it go away quietly or not.

The NHLPA also is not just representing the 6 players involved either though. Even if all 6 of these guys should want to be RFA’s for some reason, the NHLPA also has a vested interest for all of its members in being able to take advantage of any other stupid mistakes that team management should make. Because unrestricted free agency is one of the biggest benefits players get, and it normally only comes with a certain amount of seniority, even if all 6 of these guys wanted to stay RFA’s and be in Chicago for dirt cheap, the PA should still be banging pots and pans and telling everyone and their mother that these guys are now UFA’s, because that’s what will benefit the players more should anything similar happen in the future.

Really, what the 6 individuals want shouldn’t even be a concern here, because if they really want, they can sign dirt cheap contracts to stay in CHI, even as UFA’s. But making them into UFA’s establishes the precedent that if you screw up your QO’s, your players will become UFA’s, and the PA won’t allow anything different. In fact, given that the NHLPA (and more than that, the player’s agents, who have both their paychecks and that of their players on the line) hasn’t started a super giant shitstorm over this, I would really wonder if the PA doesn’t want this quietly swept under the rug. On top of that, if I’m a GM of another team, I’m putting a contract in front of Versteeg, getting his name on it, and running around the country telling everyone how he was a UFA, Chicago screwed up, and Versteeg is now part of my team. That no offers are coming in from GMs either (at least none that we’re hearing about or having heard of being accepted) also speaks to the idea that the league wants this quietly and discreetly dealt with. Brian Burke ought to go get Versteeg or Barker’s name on a SPC right now, as he is exactly the kind of GM who normally works creatively to take advantage of situations like this.

http://sacrificethebody.blogspot.com/
Sacrifice the Body - Examining the NHL through statistical analysis, reasoned thought, and blind conjecture.

by IAmJoe on Jul 4, 2009 9:03 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

My understanding of how these things work is that, if none of the players tries to become a UFA, or files a grievance, the players’ association doesn’t have standing to argue it on their own. I suspect that they will strongly advise the players to do the above, but I don’t think that it’s their call. That said, I suspect that the chances of all four players deciding not to file is pretty slim.

by J. Michael Neal on Jul 5, 2009 2:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs