The Myth of the "NHL Arena" Argument
As to be expected, the Coyotapocalypse has sparked much talk about relocation and potential markets for NHL franchises. Everyone is chiming in with their favorite "city or region without a team that should get a team" (Hamilton! KC! Winnipeg! Hartford! Seattle! Quebec! Whitehorse!) , and the bickering about the most deserving has settled into three basic tracks - market size, potential love for major league hockey, and whether or not the market has an "NHL caliber arena". The first is a sheer numbers argument, and the second has no quantifiable means of measurement. The third, however, should be pretty easy to suss out. That is, as long as what constitutes a "NHL arena" has been defined, and whether one is really needed initially - and I'm not sure on either yet.
What got me thinking about this was a commenter on Puck Daddy suggesting that the Coyotes move to Milwaukee, however unlikely such an idea might be, and use the University of Wisconsin Madison's Kohl Center as a temporary solution until a full NHL arena was built in the big city. According to Wikipedia, the capacity listed for that venue (for hockey) is 15,237, and as that's well less than the roughly 18,000 magic number being thrown around for a potential NHL venue, so I dismissed the idea. But then, I took a look at the photo in the article:
Does that look any less like an NHL rink than any arenas the league currently uses? It has 2 levels of suites, 3 levels of seating, and a modern jumbotron scoreboard, just like the big boys. As it's a college venue, it would only be a stop-gap, but it wouldn't look so out of place. This led me to question why a city needs a 17,000 seat arena right now to get a team.
The general consensus is that the most NHL-ready arena in the US or Canada is currently Kansas City's Sprint Center, an 18,555 seat gleaming new venue. It has all the amenities and wouldn't require much work at all to host a team long-term. Thus, KC jumps to the top of the list. Jim Balsillie's current Hamilton plan involves playing in the 17,500 Copps Coliseum; but as it stands, the Copps is an outdated relic, the last of the pre-Palace of Auburn Hills major arenas built. It will likely take several years to convert it into the modern facility a team would need long-term, especially considering any work would need to take place in the short offseason. Still, the capacity would seem to make it a front runner, even in a temporary facility sense.
Meanwhile, both sit empty. Both were built to entice the NHL to either expand or relocate franchises, and neither has happened. Such is the risk of building a major league arena without a team signed on to play there. It's worked in some places - Nashville, for example - but Oklahoma City's venue took essentially an act of thievery to bring the NBA there. With no guarantee of a team, most cities won't build new arenas...and with no new arena, most cities won't get teams. It becomes a circle of status quo.
But it wasn't always that way. Back in the early 1990s, when the NHL was busy growing it's league divisions at a time, teams were often born without arenas ready, leading them to debut in venues that, while being only temporary homes, were still not places you'd expect to find a major league franchise. The San Jose Sharks came into being in San Fransisco, in the small (and old) Cow Palace, while the Senators first apartment was the bizzare half-NHL/half-OHL Ottawa Civic Center. Tampa Bay, meanwhile, played out of a baseball stadium converted to a hockey rink that has since returned to being a baseball stadium. Granted, the mid-90s brought new teams largely to existing NBA arenas that were reconfigured to hold hockey, and the latest round of expansion resulted in entirely new facilities. But, in the Coyotes situation, if someone was willing to take an initial loss to have the team play in a smaller facility temporarily while a new one was built, why should the NHL stop them?
In some sense, it might actually be better for such a situation to occur. As a new team is trying to gain traction in the market, a slightly smaller (around 15,000 seats) venue would be easier to sell out, and provide a better atmosphere for those getting their first taste of the professional game. Also, those sellouts are great for PR. It didn't look good on Peter Karmanos to have thousands of empty when the Hurricanes played in the cavernous Greensboro Coliseum the first few years in Carolina.
Again, this only goes for temporary homes, while larger arenas are constructed. Let's take a few examples. No one would mistake Hartford's much-maligned XL (nee Civic) Center for a long-term NHL rink. It's too cramped, has too few amenities, and not enough suites. But, at only 600 seats lower capacity than the existing Nassau Coliseum, would it look so out of place for 2 or 3 years? Seattle's KeyArena has only 15,000 seats for hockey, and just wouldn't fit the bill as a permanent solution, but it'd certainly keep a team afloat while a new venue was built. And, the MTS Centre in Winnipeg would be more than adequate while awaiting a renovation.
There are, of course, other issues with those markets getting teams. That brings me back to the Coyotes, though. To say that KC and Hamilton are the sole candidates for relocation based on their arenas isn't quite a convincing argument to me, and I believe that existing arenas shouldn't be as much of a factor in any relocation or expansion discussion. Market size and potential should still be the primary metrics. If the NHL or a franchise owner were to come to a city and say, "We're going to put team here," most places would trip over themselves to get an arena built somehow. As long as an available interim space is moderately sized and near the core of the market, a new/relocated team should be in good standing short-term.
This item was created by a member of this blog's community and is not necessarily endorsed by From The Rink.
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Good stuff here. I’m still gathering information about market viability and basically ignored arena qualifications since I wanted to do it for any theoretical new franchise in a major sports league… so having this out there is good news on that front and one less thing to worry about. :)
If the NHL or a franchise owner were to come to a city and say, “We’re going to put team here,” most places would trip over themselves to get an arena built somehow.
And here lies the problem. Cities generally make too many compromises for their major projects and often are saddled with having to put good money after bad in order to cover. There will be mistakes in the future as there have been mistakes in the past, regardless of what people get out of this whole Glendale fiasco. Unfortunately too many councils believe in the Field of Dreams myth… building mega stadiums in fields just isn’t the best of ideas.
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by saskhab on Aug 24, 2009 9:54 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If it's done just by population and arena....
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Caps on Aug 24, 2009 1:49 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
If it's done just by population and arena....
…the largest city without an NHL team in North America is…. Houston, Texas. They have an arena, the Toyota Center, that seats 17,800 for hockey. If the Coyotes were to leave Phoenix for Houston, the next largest city in North America without and NHL team would be… Phoenix.
Let's go Caps!
by MikeL-Caps on Aug 24, 2009 1:52 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Market dilution is the x-factor that plays the most important role. Can Houston and Phoenix support 4 major pro franchises? Can Denver or St. Paul? Who can handle more than what they have right now? And which of the smaller markets without a single major pro franchise could be looked at?
And technically, Mexico City is the largest city in North America without a NHL team. But I guess I shouldn’t be giving Bettman any wild ideas. :)
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by saskhab on Aug 24, 2009 2:43 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bingo on the market dilution. I think the NHL will work long term in places like Columbus, San Jose, and (ugh) Raleigh because there’s not a lot else for major league sports, just MLS and college. I think that plays a role in a place like Cleveland having the other 3 major sports but not NHL…the market is saturated enough as is. It’s also a secondary argument for a place like Hartford, which has a Combined Statistical Area population of 1,306,151, larger than existing NHL market Buffalo, and not even counting the 682,657 of metropolitan Springfield, MA, but has nothing in the way of major league sports, save for the WNBA. And then that’s where the arena thing comes in – there’s no NHL-ready arena in that region, but is it worth playing a few seasons in the XL until something newer comes along? Thus, the above.
by Arenacale on Aug 24, 2009 3:41 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
There was something in Forbes not to long ago that claimed that Hartford had the most potential money to spend on pro sports in the US right now. I can’t remember the exact wording, but there are things that Hartford going for it. I can’t really comment on them as a media market, however (other than they’re ranked 37th in the US as a TV market), which would be 2nd smallest TV market in the NHL behind Buffalo:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market
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by saskhab on Aug 24, 2009 4:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dismissing US college sport when discussing market saturation would be a mistake.
by Resolute on Aug 25, 2009 10:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially in the case of Columbus, since Ohio State sports pretty much dominates the town.
He also oversimplifies the situation over in San Jose; the Sharks may be the only major league team in the city proper, but they also compete with other major league teams in the greater San Francisco Bay Area, specifically in San Francisco and Oakland. The Sharks’ competitors include 2 NFL franchises, 2 MLB franchises and a gong show masquerading as an NBA team – one of the major reasons they’ve succeeded (aside from being in the biggest and richest city in the area) is that the Sharks’ last few years of regular season success have coincided with those 5 other franchises’ fortunes going right down the crapper.
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by Nael M. on Aug 28, 2009 12:54 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mentioned San Jose...
you do realize it’s part of the SF Bay Area CSA, which has 6 pro teams in total?
The A’s are currently politicking for a move from Oakland to San Jose, but it’s still the same market.
by bison on Aug 29, 2009 12:28 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understood on both counts. I was trying to think of another “NHL only game in town” scenario in the US, and I chose San Jose because, while it’s the Bay Area, it’s well south of the other teams.
by Arenacale on Aug 29, 2009 4:05 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
It’s a freaking huge market though, the 6th largest in the US/Canada. Oakland is clearly the weak sister of the market, with only the Raiders being a high profile team in the area. San Jose > Oakland, and the NHL is there by themselves.
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by saskhab on Aug 30, 2009 10:28 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm? Only the Raiders in Oakland? You forget the A’s and the Golden State Warriors of the NBA, both of whom are based in Oakland facilities. This only bolsters your argument; Oakland is carved up three ways and SJ is a one-team city.
by dzuunmod on Aug 30, 2009 1:17 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I meant that the Raiders were the only high profile one of the group… The A’s and Warriors are generally considered 2nd or 3rd tier franchises in their leagues. The Raiders probably are even considered a 2nd tier franchise within the NFL, but they’re by far the #1 show in Oakland due to the NFL’s dominance.
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by saskhab on Aug 30, 2009 5:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
49ers maybe?
I mean they only have 5 superbowl rings, granted this is not the team of the 80’s but nonetheless, they are still a huge part of the market.
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by SetoThorMarChooSki on Sep 1, 2009 4:23 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, for the purposes of the Oakland-San Jose comparison, I left the San Francisco franchises, both of whom lead the market in their sports, out of the equation. I figured that was a given. Notice how I said “the #1 show in Oakland” and not “the #1 show in San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland CSA”.
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by saskhab on Sep 1, 2009 9:30 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
haha… I had to throw my 2 cents in there… I would be interested in seeing the numbers as far as franchise popularity for the Oakland teams, I know that the Raiders have a rather large following around the country, or world for that matter. I wonder how far the reach of the A’s goes?
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by SetoThorMarChooSki on Sep 1, 2009 4:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it was a campaign to relocate from Oakland to Fremont, and the deal has since stalled out due to the woeful economy situation.
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by SetoThorMarChooSki on Sep 1, 2009 4:21 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, they’ve moved onto San Jose after the NIMBYs in Fremont shot it down. The proposed ballpark is supposed to be near Diridon station and HP Pavilion. SJ’s city council is trying to make things happening as well, holding meetings and having an updated EIR done for the area. The main thing standing in the way is the question of territorial rights, since Santa Clara County belongs to the Giants.
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by mymclife on Sep 1, 2009 1:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I thought they got shot down by Fremont and BB decided to try and work with Oakland again to get another stadium (baseball only) built instead. This is very interesting indeed…
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by SetoThorMarChooSki on Sep 1, 2009 4:53 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup
As soon as Fremont shot them down, San Jose dove into the process, holding meetings and votes on the proposal and even going as far to write to Selig to get the territorial rights changed. Lew Wolff was in complete support of this, as well. After a few months of this, Oakland finally realized, “crap, the A’s might actually move,” and are trying to come up with a new location. SJ is still way ahead of them, though.
Oh, and here’s a map of the proposed location from newballpark.blogspot.com. Note the city’s official logo in the bottom right, as this comes from the city themselves. Oh, and the big white square near the middle. That’s HP Pavilion.

"I think I realized after the second or third punch, I should have taken his helmet off sooner." - Ryane Clowe
Proud member of the "Don't Trade Marleau" Club
Fools and Sages
by mymclife on Sep 1, 2009 10:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Houston did not do that bad with WHA. And the Aeros draw pretty good in the AHL. Just to add that. :)
by Silentjay on Sep 3, 2009 1:41 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any team moving to Milwaukee would not need to play over in Madison at the Kohl Center. Milwaukee has a perfectly serviceable arena already: the Bradley Center. Home of the Milwaukee Admirals, seating for 17,800.
One wonders, though, if the NHL would relocate a team to Milwaukee when the city already has an AHL team.
by RedBirdie on Aug 26, 2009 10:27 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed that Bradley Center...
is perfectly serviceable. A damn nice place to watch hockey or basketball. But at 20 years old, the Bucks already consider it obsolete (not enough club seats), and want a new one. And market saturation is in issue, with MLB, NBA and the NFL (Green Bay is very much Milwaukee’s team) already there.
The AHL team would go somewhere else. If they put one in my hometown (pop. 150,000, arena capacity under 10K), they can put one anywhere.
Bottom line—when it comes time to relocate a team, they’d probably go anywhere that a well-financed potential owner wanted to put them, as long as it’s untapped territory and a decent arena. Most every potential market has an issue or two, no? Otherwise, they’d have a team already.
by bison on Aug 29, 2009 12:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Milwaukee is a diluted market, even without factoring in the Packers. It’s not like the Brewers and Bucks are flying high there. Fun fact: Milwaukee is the smallest market with a MLB team. The NFL has 5 teams in smaller markets than Milwaukee, the NBA 4, and the NHL 6 (although 3 of them are Canadian and another one is Buffalo). The MLB is the one league that doesn’t bother with small markets at all.
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by saskhab on Aug 30, 2009 10:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The MLB is the one league that doesn’t bother with small markets at all.
Might have something to do with the fact that MLB is the only league that has 81 home dates in each market per year, and they really need to sell about 30,000 tickets – not 16,000-18,000 – to each one of those for the market to be viable.
by dzuunmod on Aug 30, 2009 1:19 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
and unlike the other sports, a mere 8 of the 30 baseball teams make the playoffs. MLB is asking its fans to be there when the odds of even making the playoffs is quite smaller than NFL, NBA, or NHL.
by RedBirdie on Aug 30, 2009 5:37 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
All I want to say, really, is:
I hope that the Sprint Center brings hockey to Kansas City. I miss the NHL after moving here from St. Louis.
by stlfan on Aug 31, 2009 9:43 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Portland?
Why does Portland never get mentioned? Great sports city, good sized market (about the same as Vancouver) and large and relatively new building. The have had a WHL team for many years and were very successful at the gate. The Pac NW is definately underserved by professional sports and has the potential for some great rivalries. And from what I remember Paul Allen has been a talked about owner for many years for a possible NHL team.
by grahamp on Sep 1, 2009 2:54 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Seattle, Portland, Salt Lake City, all were fairly successful in the old WHL, but I just don’t think there’s enough interest in hockey to register more than a blip on the NHL’s radar.
I've seen enough to know that I've seen too much.
by Smoboy41 on Sep 1, 2009 8:54 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Portland's kind of a hard sitation
The only NHL-viable building is the Rose Garden, and that’s owned by Paul Allen (who also own the NBA’s Trailblazers). If Allen wanted an NHL team in the arena (or to look at it another way, a competitor to his NBA team), it would have happened by now.
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by Nael M. on Sep 2, 2009 6:50 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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