The Balsillie vote tally: 0-26-3
I know this was a topic of conversation a week ago when Jim Balsillie was unanimously rejected as a potential NHL owner, so here are the details from deputy commissioner Bill Daly on how the 29 teams (minus Phoenix) voted last Wednesday:
We really have no way of knowing why three teams abstained from the vote, and I'm not going to speculate, but I do think it's worth putting that information out there.
The governors mentioned in Daly's declaration include:
- Wild owner Craig Leipold, formerly of the Predators, read "a lengthy statement... recounting his dealings with Mr. Balsillie and his significant concerns about approving him as an NHL owner"
- Governors for the Bruins, Kings, Hurricanes and Stars all questioned Balsillie regarding "his refusal to follow through with the commitments he made during that meeting" involving the Penguins sale in 2006
- Habs owner George Gillett, Flyers owner Ed Snider and Capitals owner Ted Leonsis, meanwhile, "all questioned Mr. Balsillie about his conduct relating to [the sale of Predators tickets in Hamilton] and his answers were wholly unsatisfactory"
I leave it to you to determine how those eight voted.
The Daly declaration itself (available here) is worth a read if you've got some time to kill. A lot of the particulars relate to just what happened with the botched sale of the Penguins in late 2006 and the differing opinions on the relocation conditions tied to said sale.
That's where a lot of the animosity between the two sides first formed, and to me, it continues to remain unclear who was in the wrong. Three years later, we're still debating it and still wondering what Balsillie's true intentions were for the franchise.
Also worth perusing is the statement from Leipold, which gets into great detail regarding the mess of attempting to sell the Predators to Balsillie in 2007. It appears very clear, albeit based on info from only one side, that the intention there was always to relocate that team.
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Holy wow.
Wild owner Craig Leipold, formerly of the Predators, read “a lengthy statement… recounting his dealings with Mr. Balsillie and his significant concerns about approving him as an NHL owner”
Wow, really CL? I recall you wanting to sell my Predators to Balsillie. What happened? You’ve got Minnesota, and now you’re throwing JB under the bus? Classy…real classy.
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by codeyh on Aug 5, 2009 8:40 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
When you read what JB and Rodier did to him (a great deal of which is apparently based on documentary evidence), you might come to the conclusion that it’s a wonder he didn’t throw them under a real bus.
by Gerald on Aug 5, 2009 8:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed. A man who tried to sell out a market whining about a guy trying to sell out a market.
Leipold is the epitome of the pot calling the kettle black.
by Resolute on Aug 5, 2009 10:18 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Irony
Actually, I find Leipold’s comments laughable. He stopped investing in Nashville as a hockey market long before selling and had as much to do with it almost losing the Predators as Balsillie would if he’d been allowed to purchase the team. I’m very happy he’s in Minnesota now because he was an atrocious owner.
And that he was stupid enough to allow himself to get in bed w/Del Biaggio and now is out money that amounts to pocket change for his family? Justice is served.
by oilerdago on Aug 5, 2009 11:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
He stopped investing in Nashville as a hockey market long before selling and had as much to do with it almost losing the Predators as Balsillie would if he’d been allowed to purchase the team.
That makes no sense at all. Leipold sold the team after a season in which they had their highest payroll to date, and traded for Peter Forsberg at the deadline to make a serious playoff run. Indications came as early as December 2006 of his intention to sell, but just a couple months later, they stocked up at the deadline rather than trade assets away.
It was only after the playoff bid failed and the sale process was publicly announced that David Poile was directed to slash the payroll.
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by Dirk Hoag on Aug 5, 2009 2:12 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
As a side issue, I’ve always found this a bit of a head-scratcher.
It was only after the playoff bid failed and the sale process was publicly announced that David Poile was directed to slash the payroll.
It makes sense, I guess, to start with a fresh slate if a new GM is already in – but I would think that a team with it’s best assets in it’s players under contract would be a more valuable asset than a lower-payroll, but crappier one.
It just seems like it’s a case of “we want to sell the team, so let’s get rid of everything good and sell a cheap pile of garbage!” instead of “we want to sell the team, so let’s make sure we have a stable organization with a good fan relationship still intact.”
"Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle." -- Philo of Alexandria
by Baroque on Aug 5, 2009 4:30 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me explain
Dirk,
You are correct that it was after the public sale process that Poile was forced to slash payroll. But I’m speaking to a deeper operating philosophy.
Leipold finally raised the payroll to make a deep run in the playoffs at that time in order to raise the value of the team as he wanted out. Prior to that, the team consistently ran one of the lowest payrolls in the league.
Further, he did not invest time and effort to grow the sport in the business community and at the grass roots level. He was not a builder and he went into a market where hockey had shallow roots and did not do the things necessary to help it take hold. And he angered a lot of the business community along the way.
He had a one year head start on the NFL and wasted it.
Investing in players/payroll is one thing. Investing in growing the sport in a new market is something he did not do (and is something that the new owner, David Freeman is – I see it first hand as my son plays hockey here and I coach).
I know there are some who think he’s good because he brought the sport here, but my observation has been that he was the wrong kind of owner for the market.
by oilerdago on Aug 5, 2009 6:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will grant you that from the time I moved to Nashville in 2005, I was surprised to see how little marketing there was around the team. Besides some lame billboards and commercials that only seemed to run during Preds games (which hardly serves to draw in new fans), there was little to no push that I could see.
The current ownership group has a much different philosophy at work.
More fun than a stick to the face!
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by Dirk Hoag on Aug 5, 2009 10:07 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
Leipold’s claims are backed up by documentation. If true, then Balsille never, ever will own a hockey team, whether Bettman is control or not.
by Forsch31 on Aug 6, 2009 4:11 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far, I haven’t seen a lot of evidence the judge has been swayed by Leipold’s claims.
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by James Mirtle on Aug 6, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually...
you don’t know that yet. Wait until we see the documentation before deciding the question.
by mc79hockey on Aug 6, 2009 5:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d like to see the documentary evidence because there were parts of Leipold’s statement thta I didn’t understand. I also wonder when the NHL will have these guys actually file affidavits in their own name – Leipold’s unsworn statement tagged on to Daly’s affidavit is nice and all but I’m not sure any of it is admissible. At the very least, there would be some issues with weight, particularly if Balsillie/Rodier go after some of what’s suggested.
by mc79hockey on Aug 5, 2009 8:58 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
On what basis would it be inadmissible? Are you suggesting that only sworn statements are admissible? I hope not.
by Gerald on Aug 5, 2009 9:55 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know the rules in Federal Court in the United States...
but in Ontario, yeah, evidence has to be sworn to be admissible as a general rule, although there are certain exceptions in the Rules of Civil Procedure that permit you to swear that you are advised by so-so and do verily believe that X is true. With that said, I can show you tons of cases where affidavits are done on this basis and judges make snarky comments about the weight that they should attach to that evidence.
Looking quickly at Daly’s affidavit, I don’t even think that it meets that relaxed standard, as Daly doesn’t say that he believes Leipold’s version of events, just that it’s a true copy of his statement. The precise framing of the issue and the standard of review that the judge applies will probably be the thing though – if the judge is just saying “Do they have reasons?” then that might work. If the judge is saying “Are their reasons justifiable?” then, in Ontario at least, I’d be arguing that the Daly affidavit doesn’t get them there and that Leipold’s statement isn’t admissible for the truth of its contents.
by mc79hockey on Aug 5, 2009 10:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
In some jurisdictions (Ontario being one) affidavits may be sworn on “information and belief” (the procedure mc79 is talking about up above) but it is generally considered improper for such an affidavit to touch on contentious issues as between the parties; in other words, if a fact is in issue in the proceedings, the only proper affidavit is one sworn by someone who would be able to give viva voce (oral) testimony on the subject – i.e. someone with direct knowledge. I think that’s (one of the times) when judges get snarky – when the affidavit isn’t sworn by the person who ought to be deposing to the facts contained in it.
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by jrwendelman on Aug 5, 2009 1:13 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see from my post above that I phrased my question improperly. I was not asking you whether only statemetns that are sworn are admissible. I was trying to ask you whether the only documentation that is admissible as evidence are sworn statements. That, of course, is not the case. Affidavits contain all manner of supporting documentation. For example, JB’s affidavit contains numerous unsworn emails, in which you evidently place a great deal of weight. Leipold’s document is in the same category of document. It is unsworn, but it is evidence.
As to what weight one places on it, different peoepl will disagree. it contains a lot of stuff that is contrary to Leipold’s interest and sheds an unfavouable light on some of his decisions. That increases its weight. To say that it is inadmissible is to say that every email or other unsworn document that gets attached to an affidavit is equally inadmissible, which is not the state of the law.
I apologize for the confusing nature of my earlier question. Hopefully i have clarified the point that I was trying to convey..
by Gerald on Aug 6, 2009 12:37 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was trying to ask you whether the only documentation that is admissible as evidence are sworn statements. That, of course, is not the case. Affidavits contain all manner of supporting documentation. For example, JB’s affidavit contains numerous unsworn emails, in which you evidently place a great deal of weight. Leipold’s document is in the same category of document. It is unsworn, but it is evidence.
Those are different types of evidence. The emails that I’m referring to are documents produced contemporaneously with the events in question and (presumably) are being relied upon as evidence of the understanding on Balsillie’s side of the deal at the time they were written. They wouldn’t be relied upon for the truth of their content but only to show what Balsillie’s people were thinking at the time.
They’re actually more compelling evidence than an affidavit prepared three years later saying “Look, on date X, my understanding was Y” because unless you think that they were prepared as part of a scheme to paper a file in the event that this issue arose three years later, Balsillie’s explanation as to his understanding does seem to be supported by the documentation that was produced.
By contrast, Leipold’s statement is just summary of his complaints about Balsillie. In order for the two to be comparable, Daly would have to have attached something like the emails to the City of Nashville. While you (or a judge) might think that Leipold is admitting things that make him look bad, it’s likely that everyone who heard that statement was already well aware of those facts.
As to what weight one places on it, different people will disagree…To say that it is inadmissible is to say that every email or other unsworn document that gets attached to an affidavit is equally inadmissible, which is not the state of the law.
Well no, that’s simply not true. As I explained above, these are extremely different unsworn documents and they’re being used for different purposes. Unless Leipold is willing to swear to the facts alleged in that statement (and he may well be – I don’t know and I’m not suggesting it’s untrue) it’s piss poor evidence and completely different from the emails, in my opinion. The emails lend support to the sworn assertion as to a certain state of underestanding on Balsillie’s part. Given that Daly doesn’t swear to the facts of the Leipold statement (and wouldn’t be in a position to do so in any event), the statement seems to me to be included in the hopes that the NHL can rely on it for the truth of it’s contents.
I certainly wouldn’t go to court with an affidavit set up like that. I would be surprised if the NHL didn’t get knocked around a bit by the judge if they ultimately try to rely on that.
I was interested that the OSC stuff didn’t come up. I guess the NHL either doesn’t want to get into a debate about whether an OSC problem makes someone unfit to be an owner or Balsillie made adequate disclosure in 2006.
by mc79hockey on Aug 6, 2009 2:08 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are incorrectly perceiving both the legal standard of what is required for the NHL to make its judgment on ownership and the role that the document plays in the application of that standard.
The standard that the NHL effectively has to achieve in order to fulfill its obligation to Moyes in their assessment of the transfer application is whether they are applying reasonable business judgment in the course of their deliberations. They have to show that they considered reasonable factors and issues in the application of that standard (not, for example, whether JB was a member of a particular ethnic group, to take but one example out of many).
It is trite to say it, but I will anyway since there seems to be some confusion: one of the most critical elements to be considered in allowing someone to join an existing business partnership is whether the existing partners consider the prospective entrant to be trustworthy. (The other one, of course, is capital.)
The Leipold statement is not necessarily fully satisfactory evidence of the truth of the contents (although to say it is “piss poor” is overstating it). What it IS, however, is quite satisfactory evidence of the fact that the NHL took the appropriate matters into consideration by the NHL in its deliberations. It demonstrates that the NHL turned its mind to the main issue that it was supposed to (and is required to) take into consideration under the terms of both its constitution and the existing caselaw – whether they find JB to be a sufficiently trustworthy partner. The rest of Daly’s affidavit is similarly focused on that issue, but Leipold’s statement is offered as one of the documents that the NHL considered in its deliberations. As he read it in the meeting, it also serves as a partial transcript of the BoG meeting. Whether or not it is accurate is a different, and less important issue. In this respect, it is entirely like the emails. it is evidence of what the BoG considered – to put it in the terms that you used for the emails, it is evidence of what they were thinking about in that meeting.
You are seemingly suggesting that the courts will replace the business judgment of the BoG in assessing that evidence with their own. That is not really the law, either there or up here. Boards are given considerable deference, as you know. It seems fairly clear that they were asking themselves the right question – do we trust him? Is it your contention that the court will try to pick apart WHY the NHL does not trust him? The caselaw seems to say otherwise.
THe one I am puzzled about them leaving out is the disclosure by JB/Rodier of private emails to ESPN during the Nashville debacle.
by Gerald on Aug 6, 2009 10:57 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
They disapproved him because he “lacks good character and integrity”. Really? What about the Boots guy in Nashville, the Anaheim owners and the two Islanders owners that are in jail?
by Washcaphockey on Aug 5, 2009 9:24 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Please, please. Let’s not forget Bruce McNall.
jrwendelman
The Artist Formerly Known as "Junior", who blogs at heroesinrehab.ca/blog
"But if someone so eager to engage into fist talk, we can always meet after season end in Minsk." (Mikhail Grabovski and a well-meaning but not particularly skillful translator)
by jrwendelman on Aug 5, 2009 9:26 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you notice something else that is similar about all those guys?
by Gerald on Aug 5, 2009 9:53 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, how about Koules and Barrie in Tampa, Moyes himself in Phoenix? Nobody would ever accuse the late Bill Wirtz of having either good character or integrity. Its a comically hypocritical reason to oppose an owner by a league that was founded by people lacking character, honour and integrity, and which many of it’s most heralded executives thoughout its history were completely lacking in same.
Not to say that they should have approved Balsillie, but at least come up with a better reason than that.
by Resolute on Aug 5, 2009 10:22 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only "good character and integrity" NHL owners care about...
…is in dealings between themselves. It doesn’t really matter what you do or how you came into your money outside the room, but you’d better not screw the other guys inside. If Leipold’s statement bears any relationship to the truth, particularly in the parts about siccing first the City of Nashville on the team over the net worth clause, then the CCB on the league itself, the league’s treatment of Balsillie this round makes a whole heck of a lot more sense. Leipold’s statement certainly paints the guy as untrustworthy and unscrupulous in his dealings with another hockey owner, and that’s not going to fly in the old-boys club.
Actually, by all reports I’ve read Bill Wirtz’s moral character was fine — he was no Harold Ballard. Wirtz was just a terrible hockey owner. Character and competence are two different things.
That 17-year-old Hokie sitting in the rafters in Greensboro didn't see any of this coming.
by JoshCVT on Aug 5, 2009 10:17 PM CDT up reply actions 1 recs
Nobody would ever accuse the late Bill Wirtz of having either good character or integrity.
Not to defend Wirtz, as I did not personally know him, but I have been led to believe that you would be quite wrong in that regard. Surprising to hockey fans who have been taught to despise his hockey decisions.
At the end of the day, it comes down to whether one can trust a prospective partner. As I have said before, it baffles me how anyone could think that businessmen in ANY industry are willing to allow people to join their partnership (NOT an “old boys club”, or other such nonsense, but their partnership, or joint venture – simply a specific type of partnership) when they do not trust that partner at the outset. No such partnership exists in ANY industry.
by Gerald on Aug 6, 2009 1:13 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we know who is the source of the globe stories on Nashville and Phoenix were.
Also laughing at the Canada is a “country ran by a few men” comment, especially since JB and Rodier lost.
by jkrdevil on Aug 5, 2009 10:42 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
“Four of them might not hate me, huh? So you’re sayin’ there’s a chance!……”
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by Hooks Orpik on Aug 5, 2009 11:38 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
It would probably be easier to list the NHL owners whose gains weren’t ill-gotten.
by garth the hoser on Aug 5, 2009 11:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
my guess of the three who abstained.
Toronto, Buffalo and Ottawa. Arguably the 3 teams whose franchise would be hurt by a team in Southern Ontario. By abstaining ( on a rigged vote) they can always tell their hockey fans in their region that they do not vote against JB. Just my adjusting my tin foil hat.
Leafs selling hope to the hopeless since 1967
by Toe Blake Hockey on Aug 5, 2009 12:37 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Not sure what you think Ottawa would lose by another team in SO, but I do think it is possible that Ottawa abstained, as Melnyk is THE most pro-Canada owner in the NHL.
by Waterloo Sens Fan on Aug 5, 2009 12:55 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My inclusion of Ottawa is that if the sens take a nose dive over the next two years there
maybe Sens fans who are not Ottawa based that might… might switch to a new Ontario based team.
Damaging to the Sens maybe, crippling far from it.
Leafs selling hope to the hopeless since 1967
by Toe Blake Hockey on Aug 5, 2009 2:45 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad he can’t bring himself to live here full-time…
by dzuunmod on Aug 6, 2009 8:43 PM CDT via mobile up reply actions 0 recs
True intentions in Pittsburgh
Come on James you still can’t figure out his true intentions for Pittsburgh? He was going to move them, just like if he could have gotten Ottawa or Buffalo out of bankruptcy. If he wanted them in Pittsburgh he would have followed through and bought the team. But he lied to Mario Lemieux and the Board of Governors about his true intentions. He could own the Stanley Cup champions right now, but his act was a lie when he seemed so excited about hockey in Pittsburgh.
by Joey Joe Joe Junior Shabadoo on Aug 5, 2009 4:34 PM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Even Lemieux likely wouldn’t have been able to get his new arena pushed through without the threat of moving the team, as witnessed by his deceitful tour of Kansas City, etc. If Balsillie didn’t have that leverage, is he stuck in the Igloo for seven years?
Pittsburgh’s really not that far from Balsillie’s hometown — I could see someone in this area buying that team and visiting a few times a year.
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by James Mirtle on Aug 5, 2009 5:39 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anywhere but Hamilton
Look, they rejected him so badly not because they don’t want Basillie to have a team…they don’t want him to have a team in Hamilton.
I’ve said this many times…if he wanted a team, he would have had one by now. But a team in Hamilton would hurt the Leafs and the Sabres; or at least that’s what the owners of the Leafs and Sabres are telling everyone else. And the owners are helping eachother out on this one. So if two of them are saying “no Hamilton”, the rest of them nod thier head and agree.
But I hate it when Canadians look to this guy like he’s some “business maverick” who’s all Patriotic. That’s BULL. He’s a business man; and he wants to make money. Sure he wants a team in Canada. But if he was so Patriotic, why not put the team in Winnipeg, or Regina, or Saskatoon, or anywhere else in a big geographical country?? Why…because he can’t make money anywhere else in Canada EXCEPT in Hamilton.
So while I have nothing against Canada or Candians, please put away the red and white flags. This is not about God and Country; this is about “in God we trust”, which are four words clearly marked on all U.S. currency.
If he wanted a team and was ok about putting it Kansas City, Vegas or Seattle, he’d have had his team by now…and every owner would have gladly shook his hand and given him thier vote of confidence.
by NYCGoalie on Aug 6, 2009 9:46 AM CDT reply actions 0 recs
Sure he wants a team in Canada. But if he was so Patriotic, why not put the team in Winnipeg, or Regina, or Saskatoon, or anywhere else in a big geographical country??
Because he lives in Southern Ontario and doesn’t want to fly to the Prairies to watch his investment?
I agree, but that’s not going to be enough reason for the court to turn him away.
If he wanted a team and was ok about putting it Kansas City, Vegas or Seattle, he’d have had his team by now…and every owner would have gladly shook his hand and given him thier vote of confidence.
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by James Mirtle on Aug 6, 2009 12:21 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he was as much of a dick to the NHL BoG regarding a move to KC as he has been regarding a move to Hamilton, I’m pretty sure they’d still have rejected him. I’m so far past the “Bettman hates Canada” argument, it’s not even funny.
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by Doogie2K on Aug 6, 2009 3:42 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don’t think “hates Canada” is accurate so much as “doesn’t want another team there.”
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by James Mirtle on Aug 6, 2009 4:20 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve yet to see that distinction clearly made by the arguers of such, thus my frustration with it. At least an argument can be had with the latter.
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by Doogie2K on Aug 7, 2009 11:47 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’ve said this many times…if he wanted a team, he would have had one by now. But a team in Hamilton would hurt the Leafs and the Sabres; or at least that’s what the owners of the Leafs and Sabres are telling everyone else
I disagree. If the league wanted to put up an expansion franchise for Hamilton, with a price tag of $500M, Toronto and Buffalo would be more than happy to vote in favor of that. Each owner would stand to make over $16M in expansion fees and that would certainly be enough to convince them that it’s worth it.
The problem right now is that Balsillie wants to exploit this market without paying the expansion fee, thus leaving all the other owners in the dust. That’s one of the reasons why it’s not going through.
by Habs on Aug 6, 2009 5:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem right now is that Balsillie wants to exploit this market without paying the expansion fee, thus leaving all the other owners in the dust. That’s one of the reasons why it’s not going through.
Hello, EXACTLY!!
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by Mike @ MHH on Aug 7, 2009 10:59 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
My understanding is that the judge and Balsillie believe that calculating the relocation fee will be the difference between what an expansion team is worth in Hamilton and the current franchise value in Phoenix. Rodier talked about this in the interview I’ve linked in Friday’s post.
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by James Mirtle on Aug 7, 2009 11:42 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That makes perfect sense , but a few thoughts:
(1) Didn’t the League suggest its belief that there would be both an expansion fee and a relocation fee?
(2) How would someone determine Phoenix’s value? Is it determined before or after the bankruptcy? Wouldn’t you have a flip-flop of current positions – the NHL all of a sudden wanting the Coyotes to have as little value as possible (to maximize relocation fee), and Balsillie all of a sudden wanting it to have as much as possible (to minimize relocation fee).
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by poploser on Aug 7, 2009 2:24 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much, yeah. One thing you can’t do, apparently, is use the value that’s being carried on the books. It appears that Moyes has been amortizing the franchise value, under what provision I still have no idea.
You can’t use a discounted cash flow model, because all the indications are that that would give the franchise a negative value, which clearly isn’t the case.
My guess is that they’re going to have to fall back on the expansion fees that have been charged in the past. That forms a baseline for what people think an NHL team is worth. Possibly they’ll look at sale prices of teams, and the predators in particular. If you put a gun to my head and forced me to make a guess, I’d say that the value will be somewhere in the $75-$85 million range.
by J. Michael Neal on Aug 7, 2009 3:51 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Balsillie, in theory and by using this calculation, would pay the same no matter what. The value of the Phoenix franchise is whatever he’s willing to pay for it (which has been determined) and the value of a franchise in Hamilton (which hasn’t).
The NHL doesn’t want to get to the point where they have to name a fee.
Blogging on hockey at fromtherink.com
by James Mirtle on Aug 7, 2009 5:14 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
This method of valuing the franchise doesn’t work. If what we are trying to calculate is the value of the franchise in Phoenix without any restriction on relocation, then its value in Phoenix is simply its value in Hamilton minus moving charges. If we say that the value of the franchise is $212 million, because that’s what Ballsillie paid for it, then he could argue that he doesn’t owe any relocation fee.
I think that it’s more likely that they’ll try to value the franchise on a strict definition of in Phoenix. That would be a lot less than Ballsillie is willing to pay for it. The whole thing may be structured such that Ballsillie ends up paying the same amount regardless, but it will work from a different baseline.
Note also that this should be the value of the franchise if it were unencumbered by the various obligations owed by the team. That’s what keeps it from being zero, or less. The amount of debt simply determines who gets the money that Ballsillie pays.
by J. Michael Neal on Aug 7, 2009 6:01 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right in pointing out the tautology in that thought process, Michael. You are also right about ignoring the encumbrances.
The values ascribed tp the current team if bought to remain in Phoenix is quite irrelevant for the purpose. To properly understand it, one has to understand the underlying rationale behind Raiders II. When a team moves from one place to another, it has taken away an expansion candidate that would have been worth $X. Clearly everyone understands that. What seems to be confusing is that, in doing so, the moving team has opened up a future expansion candidate for the league, in the form of the city that they are leaving. That FUTURE franchise opportunity is worth $Y.
As such, the formula is X – Y, or
Value of expansion franchise in new city – value of expansion franchise in old city.
by Gerald on Aug 8, 2009 9:10 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not correct, James. THe court has indicated that it is the difference between what an expansion team is worth in Hamilton and what an expansion franchise is worth in Phoenix. That is quite a different thing.
by Gerald on Aug 8, 2009 9:03 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are seemingly suggesting that the courts will replace the business judgment of the BoG in assessing that evidence with their own. That is not really the law, either there or up here. Boards are given considerable deference, as you know. It seems fairly clear that they were asking themselves the right question – do we trust him? Is it your contention that the court will try to pick apart WHY the NHL does not trust him? The caselaw seems to say otherwise.
I’ll come back to some of the other legal stuff but this caught my eye. What caselaw are you referring to? As I’ve tried to emphasize throughout, I’m not a bankruptcy lawyer and I don’t practice in the United States, although I am broadly familiar with the business judgment rule. My sense was that that wasn’t really the issue though – the issue was whether they made the decision in good faith. Per Baum:
"Significant to the court here regarding the objection to the transfer of the ownership to the Phoenix Coyotes is the fact that in 2006 the NHL approved PSE to become a member of the NHL. The court has the firm sense that if the only issue here was PSE purchasing the Phoenix Coyotes [no relocation term] there would be no objection from the NHL. The law implies in every contract a convenant of good faith and fair dealing. Even where one party retains, by virtue of the contract, a right of approval or disapproval or a discretionary power over the right of the other, such parameters must be exercised within the parameters of good faith."
I don’t know how you can assess a party’s good faith and fair dealing if you’re just doing the sort of smell test that the business judgment rule involves. I’m not familiar with the case law in this area but Baum’s comment seemed to me to suggest some inquiry beyond asking whether it was commercially reasonable. Even on Leipold’s complaint – Cal Nichols went out and dumped all over Darryl Katz about four months before he ended up recommending that EIG sell, saying that Katz had destabilized the franchise and turned it into a circus. If similar instances in the past haven’t resulted in owners being turned down, it’s hard to understand what’s different about this transaction, other than the presence of non-permissible considerations.
by mc79hockey on Aug 6, 2009 12:02 PM CDT reply actions 1 recs
Should have quoted the next line from Baum too...
“Absent some showing by the NHL that there have been material changes in PSE’s circumstances since 2006, it appears to the court that the NHL can not object or withhold its consent to PSE becoming the controlling owner of the Phoneix Coyotes”
So really, what I guess we’re debating is the standard that will be applied in determining a material change. As I understand your position – and I might be wrong – you think that it’s pretty low. That strikes me as a bit ridiculous because it completely guts the idea of material change. I take Baum’s comment as basically saying that a refusal to consent to the purchase is a prima facie breach of the duty of good faith, which can be rebutted by showing that there were, in fact, material changes. In which case, the truth of Leipold’s opinions is, IMO, absolutely relevant.
by mc79hockey on Aug 6, 2009 12:09 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s my wild conspiracy theory that I mentioned in the thread. Is Balsillie’s bid contingent on relocation? What’s to keep the league from letting him bid and win and then refusing the relocation?
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by Mike @ MHH on Aug 7, 2009 11:01 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depending on how the bid’s structured, maybe it’s not possible to accept one but not the other. It’s a thought I’d had myself.
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by Doogie2K on Aug 7, 2009 11:49 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The bid is contingent on relocation. Has been from Day 1.
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by James Mirtle on Aug 7, 2009 11:51 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s what I thought. I can’t see a judge forcing a major sports league to move a franchise. THAT would be precedent setting and would likely live in appeals for quite some time.
2008-2009 Colorado Avalanche: Dry Humping Mediocrity
by Mike @ MHH on Aug 7, 2009 2:33 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
The appeals are going to go on for a long time no matter how Judge Baum rules. About the only thing that would shut it down is if the US Supreme Court agrees with the NFL’s entire position in American Needle. If that happens, the NHL wins, though I still think there’s a possibility that that would mean that they get stuck with the creditors’ bills.
The real nightmare here is if the judge rules for Ballsillie, and the league gets a stay on the order to let him move the team while they appeal. That would mean that the team is headed to Hamilton unless the ruling is overturned, but has to play another 2-3 years in Phoenix.
That’s what I thought. I can’t see a judge forcing a major sports league to move a franchise.
Judges have forced leagues to let an owner relocate before. See Gerald’s and my arguments over LA Coliseum v. NFL.
by J. Michael Neal on Aug 7, 2009 3:56 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judges have forced leagues to let an owner relocate before.
Yep, under constitutions that don’t exist any more, but not since the sports leagues revised them to follow the express directions of the courts over twenty years ago.
by Gerald on Aug 8, 2009 9:14 AM CDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only way Balsillie’s bid works if the judge, or some other court, orders the NHL to accept the relocation. That’s why the NHL is going through the motions of interviewing all the bidders. That’s why the NHL wants to have a process that gives first crack to the bidders who don’t want to move. That’s why there is going to be significant litigation in the future if the parties hold to their current positions. That’s why this ain’t going to be done anytime soon.
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by poploser on Aug 7, 2009 2:27 PM CDT up reply actions 0 recs

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